Thread: Attitudes to the road toll

Originally Posted by ian

unfortunately, it is much more than this.

In NSW at least, there is extensive research* backing the following:

1. Prior to graduated licencing, and a minimum number of hours of supervised experience, when a person obtained their licence, their main driving skill was an ability to pass the driving test. Nothing more. The typical student fronted for a driving test with less than 20 hours behind the wheel. That person then spent the next few years actually learning to drive, how to judge distances, how to control a vehicle outside the confines of a suburban street and 40 km/h. Not surprisingly, many drivers crashed whilst gaining this additional experience.

2. Graduated licencing is intended to minimise the risk, while young people gain the driving experience needed to survive on their own.

3. The minimum number of supervised hours is intended to try and give young people some experience under different driving conditions -- night, day, freeway, traffic, etc -- prior to them going full independent. Unfortunately, too many learners rack up their hours sitting in peak hour traffic blindly following the car in front, braking when it brakes, crawling forward when it moves, etc, or driving along the freeway on Sunday afternoon with the car on cruise control. Very few actually get to think about the need to reduce speed on the approach to a tight corner because it's all too hard to go looking for those types of road. And anecdotally, most learners with 120 hours in the log book, actually only have around 60% of those hours.

4. One side effect of the 120 supervised hours requirement is that some young people put off obtaining a licence. The jury is out on whether this is a good or bad thing. One impact might be that instead of a bunch of 17 and 18 year olds starting to drive independently after a nominal 120 hours of supervision, it will be a bunch of 23 year olds driving independently (while still learning to drive) after a much shorter period of supervision.

5. road safety experts see self-driving cars as the "next big thing" to reduce the road toll. Personally I have my doubts.

Yes, that was the motivation for the start of this thread - I pointed out on another thread that Texas has no requirement for driver training beyond a written exam and brief on the road testing.
In Illinois where I grew up all of the high schools had driver training courses that ran a full academic year. The first half was classroom instruction 5 days/week, 1 hour per day. The second half included an on the road element with an instructor in addition to the classroom instruction. Successful completion of this course enabled acquisition of a driving license at the age of 16 years. No course and you had to wait until 18 years old. There was a learners permit system that allowed driving in the company of an adult for a period followed by a period in which the learner could drive during daylight and early evening hours only. Driving in Illinois was a far saner experience than it is in Texas.

Originally Posted by rob streeper

I think that people don't respect automobiles anymore. In part I see this as arising in the fact that the models now available are so much safer. Another part is that the roads are better by far than they were when I was young. An unfortunate side effect is that people drive even faster now as the improved safety has apparently given them a sense of impunity or immortality.

My grandfather was a mortician. I remember riding with him and he would never exceed 40 - 45 mph, never. It didn't matter that other drivers would honk their horns at him or make rude gestures, he just wouldn't drive any faster. I asked my dad once why granddad did this and he replied 'He's seen too much death. The old man may take all day to drive across town but he will always make it, doesn't matter if there's three feet of snow.' That being said he wouldn't drive in the rain unless the errand was essential.

What needs to be cemented in the mind of every young person is that cars can be deadly and dead is dead, no going back. Maybe an apt punishment for those who abuse driving privileges is to be sentenced to assisting in autopsies for a spell or to be required to explain to the kids of victims like Ryan why their dad isn't coming home.

People don't respect people anymore...that's the problem...and I can understand why the youth have little or no respect for authority...you reckon our politicians are good role models(Trump a prime example) for our kids??...MM

Originally Posted by MAPLEMAN

...you reckon our politicians are good role models(Trump a prime example) for our kids??...MM

Perhaps.....but my understanding is that the Trump administration has caught over 1000 paedophiles in the last 12 months, that were allowed to 'exist' under previous governments.

Originally Posted by cava

Perhaps.....but my understanding is that the Trump administration has caught over 1000 paedophiles in the last 12 months, that were allowed to 'exist' under previous governments.

Total nonsense George...MM

....

Originally Posted by beefy

INDEED - it certainly is not just the young.

A few pages ago I mentioned about the general angry aggressive attitude I see so much of here. And as I said I've been making it a point to have a look at the drivers who carry out aggressive dangerous driving. Seems to me many of the kids are taking after the adult drivers. Take a look at all the powerful V8 engine cars and utes, and look at who's driving them. They're driven by all ages and I see it as representative of the hoon mentality or more than just the young ones. A very typical example just a couple of days ago. I'm at a traffic light behind other cars. Lights go green and I move off, can't go any faster than the car in front of me. Blue ute behind me is right up my backside trying to push me closer to the car in front of me. So I make it obvious I'm staring at him in the mirror and I back off the gas. He gets the message and backs off, but throws his hands up in the air and shakes his head. His rego was **AUTO (don't want to get myself litigated against by a hoon) and he appeared middle aged or more. So I'm guessing he owns some sort of car business, a good "respectable" business owner. Yeah right, but still yet another non-young V8 ute driving aggressive dick, a great teacher for the kids. This is common in my 15 years experience here, so I'm concluding there's a lot of like father like son. If there was some intelligence in this aggressive behaviour it would make it a little less infuriating, but this behaviour seems carried out even when the victim driver can't do anything. I mean where the hell could I go when there's cars in front of me.

Yeah, drugs and alcohol will contribute, but I'd love to know the REAL percentage of accidents caused by these in comparison with plain aggressive / impatient driving. And better driver training will have very little effect if the driver doesn't have the right attitude and wants to implement what he/she was taught.

Ha ha, and talking about "he/she" there's plenty aggressive women behind the wheels too I've noticed. I think the overall problem is in our culture. Fair enough, of course it's not everyone, just a significant enough proportion that you'll see plenty examples of this behaviour nearly every time you drive.

Agree...MM

Originally Posted by MAPLEMAN

Total nonsense George...MM

But what if I'm right?

My mother in law has just turned 86. She got her drivers Lic in the Snowy, sixty years ago, by driving a jeep once around the block while the testing officer stood on the kerb and watched! She lives in the middle of Sydney, drives every day and has never had an accident. Never been booked. She is now thinking of giving driving away, as she feels there are too many cars on the road these days.
Maybe therein lies the problem.

I think blaming video games is a bit of a cop out. If someone has latent violent tendencies, something will trigger it regardless. No one that I've ever heard comment on the issue seems to think kids growing up on farms who watch parents (or do it themselves) kill, gut and skin animals is desensitising them to violence, but a video game does? Its just an excuse for having a bit of a screw loose IMO.

I think the growing problem is more to do with the lack of awareness of other people. More and more kids are growing up with an inflated sense of self importance. They get awards for participating, play sport where they don't keep score so no one loses etc. They don't learn that other peoples effort, input or whatever matters, just their own.

The lack of respect for authority also comes into it, but that's not the fault of the kids. All the power to discipline children have been removed. I'm not saying they should be whacked when they do something wrong, but more and more parents lose it at teachers who say their kids have issues with authority (this is from the mouths of friends who are primary teachers). Every time they try to broach the subject with parents, its denial 101. "Little Johnny is a fantastic, well behaved child and you mustn't be doing your job properly or trying hard enough".

People are becoming more and more self absorbed and don't look at consequences to their actions outside their immediate bubble....

More fun! Dashcam footage captures crash near Townsville after teens in allegedly stolen vehicle injure three - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Originally Posted by woodPixel

More fun! Dashcam footage captures crash near Townsville after teens in allegedly stolen vehicle injure three - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Police said the driver of the Cruze returned to pick up the occupants of the Challenger before fleeing the scene
"

It shows they have a complete lack of empathy and a lack of remorse for what has happened," Detective Inspector Miles said.
"In essence there are people there who have been and were significantly injured and just left them there without rendering any assistance whatsoever."

Amazing.Where do 16-year-olds learn to drive like that? And for one to comeback to pickup the other and leave three injured people trapped in their car...

Originally Posted by doug3030

Amazing.Where do 16-year-olds learn to drive like that? And for one to comeback to pickup the other and leave three injured people trapped in their car...

go onto the ABC news site and search for stories and commentary from Townsville.

The city seems to harbour a significant population of young people who believe that Australian society "owes them" for past injustices and that what they do now is just part of clawing back what they are "owed".

Of course NONE of us 'baby boomers' ever misbehaved inappropriately behind the wheel of a motor vehicle when we were teens ...MM

Originally Posted by MAPLEMAN

Of course NONE of us 'baby boomers' ever misbehaved inappropriately behind the wheel of a motor vehicle when we were teens ...MM

maybe not


but then, very few of us would have been habitual car thieves