Thread: Attitudes to the road toll

Originally Posted by doug3030

I had a quick read through them all and I can't see one article that really contradicts what I said. I think all the articles at some point said that exposure to media violence at some level impacts upon behaviour. I had never meant to imply that every kid who plays violent driving games will become a killer on the road - just that some, who may overdo the exposure or be more susceptible to the influence due to other environmental factors may get pushed over the line. Others who have not gone that far may still be acting more aggressively than they would have done without some level of exposure to that environment.

I doubt anyone could read those articles objectively and say that they conclude that video games do not have an affect on people.

Yes the thrust of some the articles was that video games may have a causal effect on violent behaviour but that more research was needed to confirm this and to measure the extent of the influence. Some of the articles indicated that violent video games on their own were unlikely to have a long term affects on violent behaviour unless this was supported by a peer group.

Originally Posted by doug3030

For the last 20 years or so, our young people have been learning how to drive by playing computer games. Long before the ever get behind the wheel of a real car they already have ingrained bad habits and a poor attitude to safety.

I wonder if for the past 20 years our YP have been instead learning to win at a video game. Again the research seems to support the idea that YP can tell the difference between a video game and reality.

For several years after they get their license, they have more "driving time" on the computer where if a car crashes, it rolls over and the windscreen cracks in front of them. The car then immediately rights itself, the windscreen automatically heals itself miraculously and they drive off unscathed with a new life. When they get an Adrenalin rush in a race or a police chase their mind reverts to the computer scenario that they know so well. In their mind, there are no physical consequences and all that matters is the win.

I think that it is more likely that our P plate drivers suffer from the 6' tall and bullet proof syndrome. I lived on my reflexes for the first 2 years of driving. Hence the very restrictive red & green P plate system which is designed to slow down young males. I know women can get toey behind the wheel but it is nothing like a bunch of hyped up males. I have one son and two daughters, boy was there a difference between their driving styles.

Having said that, I for a fact know that during the 90's certain young males would steal a Porsche or something similar and drive to a police station, rev it up and enjoy the ensuing police chase. The police seemed to enjoy it too. There was some rule that once they were caught they went quietly and all was good. I think this supports the view that this behaviour if supported by a peer group is more likely to happen. Mind you after chatting with these manchilds it was a case of much regret after acting in haste and repenting in leisure.

A human being is a product of their past experiences. Look at what the youth of today are feeding their brains with. Therein lies the problem - and not just on the roads. Society used to discourage the young from watching movies with physical violence that was no where near as bad as what there is in G rated computer games now. It's the old computer adage - garbage in garbage out.

Agreed there is a lot of garbage going in. I can't remember the exact numbers, but someone has done a survey of the television a child is likely to watch and has calculated that by the age of ten they will have witnessed several thousand murders, and other acts of violence. Again there is evidence that a family's support will ameliorate the impact this has on the child.

I think that alone video games will not cause violence, but when when a young person exhibits violent behaviour, you will find video games present along with DV in the family, absent fathers, illicit drug use, poverty, a peer group that supports violence, anger etc. Therefore your analogy of GIGO is correct.

TT

Shame FIFA world Cup won't make me a better soccer player

Man kills mother during tantrum over video games, police say

Food for thought?

TT

Ryan was a neighbor and family friend. CHP: Wrong way driver in I-5 fatal head-on crash may have been suicidal | KRCR

Originally Posted by rob streeper

Ryan was a neighbor and family friend. CHP: Wrong way driver in I-5 fatal head-on crash may have been suicidal | KRCR

I am so sorry to read this Rob. Words are meaningless when it is so close to home.

TT

Thanks TT.

A part of me wants to wring the neck of the girl who did this and another part of me wants to wring the collective necks of the austerity politicians who are killing our society by cutting off services for those who need them.

These two reports from the ABC describe the outcomes from two essentially similar fatal carshes.
In terms of attitudes to the road toll, can someone explain why the outcomes are so different for the "at fault" drivers.
Fatigued father jailed for Heathridge crash that killed Perth motorcyclist Cameron Budovich - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Woman avoids jail over crash that killed former soldier Henryk Frank Kustra - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Originally Posted by ian

In terms of attitudes to the road toll, can someone explain why the outcomes are so different for the "at fault" drivers.

I think that to do so would take the thread back to a direction that we were earlier asked to discontinue.

Originally Posted by ian

These two reports from the ABC describe the outcomes from two essentially similar fatal carshes.
In terms of attitudes to the road toll, can someone explain why the outcomes are so different for the "at fault" drivers.
Fatigued father jailed for Heathridge crash that killed Perth motorcyclist Cameron Budovich - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Woman avoids jail over crash that killed former soldier Henryk Frank Kustra - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

One word Ian “politics”. The ACT doesn’t have a gaol so sends it’s offenders to NSW gaols. The 72 year old woman would have to go to Dyllwinia via the MRRC. Too much trouble for all concerned. At best she will be placed into some sort of community based driving program (if one exists there) because Corrections doesn’t do programs for “accidents”.
The West Aussi guy could appeal if he had the wherewithal, but this sounds unlikely given his personal circumstances as reported.

TT

I think that people don't respect automobiles anymore. In part I see this as arising in the fact that the models now available are so much safer. Another part is that the roads are better by far than they were when I was young. An unfortunate side effect is that people drive even faster now as the improved safety has apparently given them a sense of impunity or immortality.

My grandfather was a mortician. I remember riding with him and he would never exceed 40 - 45 mph, never. It didn't matter that other drivers would honk their horns at him or make rude gestures, he just wouldn't drive any faster. I asked my dad once why granddad did this and he replied 'He's seen too much death. The old man may take all day to drive across town but he will always make it, doesn't matter if there's three feet of snow.' That being said he wouldn't drive in the rain unless the errand was essential.

What needs to be cemented in the mind of every young person is that cars can be deadly and dead is dead, no going back. Maybe an apt punishment for those who abuse driving privileges is to be sentenced to assisting in autopsies for a spell or to be required to explain to the kids of victims like Ryan why their dad isn't coming home.

Originally Posted by rob streeper

What needs to be cemented in the mind of every young person is that cars can be deadly and dead is dead, no going back. Maybe an apt punishment for those who abuse driving privileges is to be sentenced to assisting in autopsies for a spell or to be required to explain to the kids of victims like Ryan why their dad isn't coming home.

You've nailed it there Rob. A mixture of education and experiencing the consequences.


TT

I know an elderly lady that has regular black outs...and drives!
She has even admitted recently that 'perhaps' she should NOT be driving
You see she values her independence MORE than she values the life of others
Mentioned her case to QLD Main roads staffer recently who was mortified at the prospect
So not always the young at fault
Beware of the 'bopping' granny...MM

Originally Posted by doug3030

I think that to do so would take the thread back to a direction that we were earlier asked to discontinue.

That is part of the problem around the road toll -- an unwillingness to discuss the hard issues.

On the face of it the two examples I posted differ mostly by gender and willingness to volunteer a possible explanation.
the main take away for me is that avoiding taking responsibility by saying "I don't remember. I have no idea." Is a much better response, than accepting responsibility through "I think I must have fallen asleep at the wheel."

Personally accept responsibility and you will probably go to jail.

Originally Posted by rob streeper

I think that people don't respect automobiles anymore. In part I see this as arising in the fact that the models now available are so much safer. Another part is that the roads are better by far than they were when I was young. An unfortunate side effect is that people drive even faster now as the improved safety has apparently given them a sense of impunity or immortality.

What needs to be cemented in the mind of every young person is that cars can be deadly and dead is dead, no going back. Maybe an apt punishment for those who abuse driving privileges is to be sentenced to assisting in autopsies for a spell or to be required to explain to the kids of victims like Ryan why their dad isn't coming home.

unfortunately, it is much more than this.

In NSW at least, there is extensive research* backing the following:

1. Prior to graduated licencing, and a minimum number of hours of supervised experience, when a person obtained their licence, their main driving skill was an ability to pass the driving test. Nothing more. The typical student fronted for a driving test with less than 20 hours behind the wheel. That person then spent the next few years actually learning to drive, how to judge distances, how to control a vehicle outside the confines of a suburban street and 40 km/h. Not surprisingly, many drivers crashed whilst gaining this additional experience.

2. Graduated licencing is intended to minimise the risk, while young people gain the driving experience needed to survive on their own.

3. The minimum number of supervised hours is intended to try and give young people some experience under different driving conditions -- night, day, freeway, traffic, etc -- prior to them going full independent. Unfortunately, too many learners rack up their hours sitting in peak hour traffic blindly following the car in front, braking when it brakes, crawling forward when it moves, etc, or driving along the freeway on Sunday afternoon with the car on cruise control. Very few actually get to think about the need to reduce speed on the approach to a tight corner because it's all too hard to go looking for those types of road. And anecdotally, most learners with 120 hours in the log book, actually only have around 60% of those hours.

4. One side effect of the 120 supervised hours requirement is that some young people put off obtaining a licence. The jury is out on whether this is a good or bad thing. One impact might be that instead of a bunch of 17 and 18 year olds starting to drive independently after a nominal 120 hours of supervision, it will be a bunch of 23 year olds driving independently (while still learning to drive) after a much shorter period of supervision.

5. road safety experts see self-driving cars as the "next big thing" to reduce the road toll. Personally I have my doubts.