Thread: Four Corners Tonight - A Bloody Business

I'm not in any way religious but the only expression I can muster to express my utter dismay at some of the comments in this whole saga is "Saints Protect us!"

It does not matter if the filming took a month, a day, whatever.

It does not matter if this disgraceful treatment is "in accordance with local customs.

One example of this despicable treatment is more than enough!

In many ways it reminds me of Ernest Hemingway's defence of bullfighting.

I can only sit and shake my head in wonder>

Ahhhh, religion...justifying all sorts of inhumanity for the last several thousand years!

Originally Posted by artme

One example of this despicable treatment is more than enough!

Is whinging and bitching about how disgraceful it is going to fix the problem?

One thing I have really noticed about this is 99% offer nothing constructive they just bitch and complain and moan... They just say "BAN IT ALL" as if that is somehow going to magically fix the problem..

And that description includes our elected representatives who are just as emotionally driven and quite irrational..

At least the Ag minister seems to have some sense and has not banned the trade, rather opting for the investigation approach.. Trying to ascertain firstly if this is a widespread practice or a practice only occuring at a few abattoirs... Also if Livecorp and MLA knew about it and turned a blind eye to it...

The other thing is if Animals Australia thought this was so bad and horrific, why did they not go to the government straight away with all the footage they obtained?

Events like this show who a true leader is..

Originally Posted by .RC.

The story was mostly written to pull at the emotions of the average Australian. You just had to listen to the choice of words used, the background music used.

We do not know how factual the footage was in regards to how widespread this barbaric practice is.. A report simply saying something does not mean it is true.

So you think it was all staged then?

You could run the footage minus music and sound track of any sort and it would still pull at the emotions of the average Australian.

Ah, so we shoot the messenger do we?
The strength of emotion displayed is, to me, a good sign. It shows that we are not yet completely desensitised to unnecessary suffering.
One argument I saw today was that so many are starving in indonesia that they wouldn't be able to afford beef killed expensively in Australia. I don't know if they meant to imply that the animals' suffering was necessary so that the poor could be fed but that's how I read it.
One thing I agree with is that the MLA have a good many questions to answer.
Cheers,
Jim

Originally Posted by .RC.

Is whinging and bitching about how disgraceful it is going to fix the problem?

One thing I have really noticed about this is 99% offer nothing constructive they just bitch and complain and moan... They just say "BAN IT ALL" as if that is somehow going to magically fix the problem.

.RC ,

I think you have some relevant points. Personally I think the "Ban it all" approach is simply the magical fix to make the publicity go away for a while so they can simply bring it back in a few months without anything changing.

The problem appears to be that MLA, Livecorp and the Government (who also contribute to the provision of boxes) have known about this issues for years and their response is that it is a slow process getting it right and its all down to the training. If they have been going through the process for 10 years already it doesn't seem to be doing anything.

If there are slaughter houses in Indonesia who are working to best practice (which the Four Corners report seemed to indicate that there were) then they should continue to be supplied. There is no reason to punish the Australian Farmer, transport company, feed lot, everybody else in the chain if it can be demonstrated it is all working according to best practice. As I said earlier the slaughter houses shown in the report are not the three or four backyard operations, they are the slaughter houses receiving the training, support and equipment from MLA, Livecorp and the Government.

The key issue is that the killing of the animal is never going to make for comfortable viewing. This will be why they didn't show the killing of the stunned animal. The bigger issue is the treatment and abuse of the animal leading up to the act of killing. Breaking a tail, stomping on an animals head, allowing it to bash its head against the concrete, having one animal run over the top of another animal who was too tormented to move, providing an environment where the animal is constantly slipping and making them try and walk on a broken leg, sticking a runing hose up an animals nose to make it move, eye gauging, having an animal hear and watch four other animals being killed in front of it ....... these are all shocking issues that have nothing to do with the act of killing and seemed to be accepted by MLA and Livecorp. This is not acceptable.

Animals Australia had no option but to go public with the footage. The Government know what is going on and have done nothing about it because to the public it isn't an issue. The investigation should also focus on who in the Government knew and why they needed to be shamed by Animals Australia in a public forum before they thought it worth while acting on the issue.

Stinky.

To put things into perspective, Indonesia assembles cars for many of the big manufacturers. How can they competently do that and yet need so long to learn how to run a slaughterhouse on modern lines?
Jim

I did not see Four Corners, but I've seen vision from the show since, enough to be apalled and sickened by it. What other species kills for food, but before they do so, inflict pain, terror and suffering on their prey and knows that they are inflicting pain terror and suffering on them? It just confirms to me that far from being the pinnacle of evolution, we are becoming a vulgar debased shadow of the exceptionally gifted species that the Earth, nature and evolution has sculpted over millions of years. I feel guilty to be a human. I have for a number of years, considered becoming a vegetarian. Perhaps this story will kick me out of my repose. My belief is that most people these days are proxy-vegetarians. Meat products come conveniently wrapped, with little to remind and indicate that they were until recently a living animal. I don't think a lot of people put much thought into where it comes from or the process by which it arrived on their fork. With more frequency of late I play this mind game: If I want to eat this, could I have killed it myself, skinned and gutted it and butchered it? Mostly I don't think I could (because I am not driven to that level of hunger where it would easily be possible) so I wonder if I really deserve to be eating it. I'm a bit of a softy with animals. When I am fishing, I stop when I catch only enough for my tea for the next couple of nights (which usually fills my day - I am a bad fisherman) and when I dispatch them with some sadness give thanks to them and honour them by eating them. I would like to be able to do this with all my meat protein, or else not eat it. So in a suburban setting that really means fish and chicken, though I doubt I could dispatch a chook without starving myself for a day or two, at least initially.
It wasn't always like this. I grew up on a farm and as a stupid kid shot my fair share of small furry and feathered animals, which I am not proud of, but I didn't know any better. Rather than taking my rifle away, my parents made me clean and cook and eat a duck I shot and that made me start thinking. I still marvel today that at the tender age of 10 or 11 they would let me wander off with a .22 and wreak havoc in the back blocks and not even worry about me. A bit later I had a semi automatic .22 so by todays standard I might be considered a terrorist! And it was a crude stupid weapon with redundant features when a single effective shot was ideal. But I ramble.
Let me finish by saying I support just one charity, the RSPCA and like them wonder, and am in wonder of the leniency shown to perpetrators of cruelty to animals such as this one. We better bloody get our own house in order too

The dopey monkeys should have learnt by now how to kill humanely,if that process was repeated out here you would have the RSPCA on you plus any number of animal rights groups
10 attempts to cut the beasts throat,come on fellas!

Originally Posted by acmegridley

The dopey monkeys should have learnt by now how to kill humanely,if that process was repeated out here you would have the RSPCA on you plus any number of animal rights groups
10 attempts to cut the beasts throat,come on fellas!

I reckon you could have phrased that a little better but I see what you are getting at.
However the problem, as in most industries, isn't just with the bloke on the floor - the killing floor in this case. The problem has to lie with management. If they can't get rid of the useless and sadistic and impart some idea of the ethics of humane treatment of animals in a learning period of some ten years then they need their marching orders too.
On another slant, the meat must be crap. Animals killed under stress makes for tough meat.
Cheers,
JIm

Originally Posted by jimbur

To put things into perspective, Indonesia assembles cars for many of the big manufacturers. How can they competently do that and yet need so long to learn how to run a slaughterhouse on modern lines?
Jim

I do agree with this. For heavens sake - it is the year 2011. However, my opinion is that they who slaughter the animals in this manner wish to do so. They are barbaric to say the least.
Les

Originally Posted by lesmeyer

I do agree with this. For heavens sake - it is the year 2011. However, my opinion is that they who slaughter the animals in this manner wish to do so. They are barbaric to say the least.
Les

Agree entirely Les. As I said in my last post, there's no room in a slaughterhouse for sadists, incompetents or for those who employ them. A good start on the Indonesian side would be to sack the managers, they've had their chance.
Cheers,
Jim

Live export to Indonesia has been halted

So who's going to compensate those beef farmers for the loss of income?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...08/3238189.htm

6 months is a long time with no income. I understand the arguments for it and don't disagree - but you can't pull a livelihood away from people and say, "tough titties."