Thread: CoronaVirus ==> Empty Shelves

Originally Posted by Tccp123

How about this from a news site tonight:

“It’s important to note that there has been no known case of people contracting coronavirus on-board an aircraft anywhere in the world. This includes instances where a passenger has later turned out to have travelled while infected.”

With Virgin going out of business I'd be keen to see what they're selling their s/h planes for? Buy one, stick it on a block of land and live in it. Instant immunity!

No one has proved that people can't catch coronavirus on planes either. The virus has an incubation period of 7 to 14 days, so passengers are not going to be sick straight after sitting next to an infectious person for a few hours. But basic probability theory tells us that given the crowded nature of seating and number of people catching planes, including those that are infected. The probability of someone contracting the virus on some flight is 1, i.e., certainty. But that's not the reason governments around the world stop people travelling.

I wonder what the name of the news site is, Flat Earth Chronicle?

Further to my earlier rant, which I'll go and trim back in a moment (to remove some of my ranty bits) there is this interesting article on the ACUTE volume of disinformation, scammers, charlatans, spammers, fraudsters and just plain criminals....

ALL of these scumbags are bad guys.

Social-media companies must flatten the curve of misinformation

I received the below email this-morning, it was sent via Metalwork Forums , Contact us link.

In a time where Hospitals, front line workers and almost everyone else who cares in USA are still having major problems getting PPE no matter what you see or hear. I found this to be disgraceful.

I also notice NoniB, Katies and a number of other womens' clothing outlets have been sending out numerous emails saying they have supplies of PPE over the last week or so.

Neil

Email received below: Bold and (Maroon bits) were done by me.

Hello,

We have available the following, with low minimum order requirements - if you or anyone you know is in need:

-3ply Disposable Masks
-KN95 masks and N95 masks with FDA, CE certificate
-Gloves
-Disposable Gowns
-Sanitizing Wipes
-Hand Sanitizer
-Face Shields
-Oral and No Touch Thermometers
-Swabs

Details:

We are based in the US

All products are produced in China

We are shipping out every day.

Minimum order size varies by product

We can prepare container loads and ship via AIR or SEA.

Please reply back to (contact email deleted) with the product you need , the quantity needed, and the best contact phone number to call you

Thank you

Debbie Silver
PPE Product Specialist

Originally Posted by justonething

No one has proved that people can't catch coronavirus on planes either. I wonder what the name of the news site is, Flat Earth Chronicle?

That's not what it's saying. It's saying there has been no known case.

And you almost got it right with the news site, it was in fact news.com.au

Originally Posted by Tccp123

That's not what it's saying. It's saying there has been no known case.

And you almost got it right with the news site, it was in fact news.com.au

Which is about just as informative as saying there is no known case of people getting coronavirus from swimming in a sewer, or for a long time, the tobacco industry claimed that there is no known case of cancer caused directly by smoking.

Originally Posted by Tccp123

That's not what it's saying. It's saying there has been no known case.

And you almost got it right with the news site, it was in fact news.com.au

That article has been broadly syndicated to various publishers, including..

Covid 19 coronavirus: Packed Qantas flight sparks outrage for ignoring social distancing - NZ Herald

That statement about no known cases comes from a Qantas spokesperson. Case tracking will verify that, or not, in due course.

Interesting to see the regional case mapping for NZ at the bottom of that article. The cases are widespread and the density doesn't reflect population density, eg. Auckland has a lower number of cases than some sparsely populated areas like the far southern region (with about 1/16th the population of Auckland, ie. without counting the sheep).

Air flight SARSCOV case tracking has been undertaken but it's much more complicated than it appears.
Just waiting in a stuffy airport lounge next to an infected person for 20 minutes may transfer more SARSCOV that sitting for 3 hours in a well ventilated plane seat.

Here is a recent one for a 15 hour 350 passenger international flight
Lack of COVID-19 Transmission on an International Flight | CMAJ

conclusions

The United States Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommends contact tracing two rows in front and behind symptomatic cases with respiratory infections due to an elevated risk within close contact.(2) However, for both SARS-CoV and influenza, approximately 50% of airplane transmission has occurred beyond these rows.(3) Studies of airplane transmission are commonly biased by contacts sharing exposure risks prior to boarding the aircraft.(4) In our investigation, transmission may have been mitigated by mild symptoms and masking during the flight. However, the lack of secondary cases after prolonged air travel exposure supports droplet transmission, not airborne, as the likely route of spread of the COVID-19.

Studies have been done on flights for measles which is much more infectious than SARSCOV. Some cross infections have been observed although nowhere near as might be expected. This one shows how complicated the tracking is Contact tracing following measles exposure on three international flights, Germany, 2017

Originally Posted by ian

.....

Currently, I'm in Canada on an extended visitor's visa. ..... what should I do?

Uh??

Apply for a visa extension due to "extenuating circumstances".

Is it possible to return to Australia from Canada? Are there any planes flying?

Originally Posted by Tccp123

How about this from a news site tonight:

“It’s important to note that there has been no known case of people contracting coronavirus on-board an aircraft anywhere in the world. This includes instances where a passenger has later turned out to have travelled while infected.”

.....

That was a particularly dumb article by a journalist relying on the "no causal link" argument used for so long by the tobacco industry's propagandists.

Many people have tested positive to COVID-19 shortly after getting off and aircraft. What cannot be ascertained - the causal link - is where and when precisely did they contract the virus; was it:

• before they started their journey,
• while waiting in the airport departure lounge,
• aboard the aircraft, or
• after arriving (eg standing in the immigration queue)?

Originally Posted by Tccp123

...cherry picked NW Tassie as the exception.... I might add this occurred after lockdown had been brought into effect which would seemingly question the effectiveness of lockdown.

.....

But I don't live in NYC so my chances of coming into contact with a carrier are still something like 1:10,000. Still good odds IMO.

.....

That means no tourism, no exports, no imports blah, blah, blah... Where's the money coming from? How do you think that $130bn was funded?

I can't see an alternative to herd immunity but I'm open to ideas. Anyone?

Where to start... and finish.

Yes, the NW Tassie numbers are all after lockdown, but I was replying to ...

Do you have a problem with this statement?


Well I still don't know anyone with the virus, nor do I know anyone who knows anyone with it!

I do have a problem with looking at the numbers from the perspective of what are my chances of catching this virus (eg 1:10,000) as a basis for decision making. During this pandemic individuals have repeatedly demonstrated that they underestimate the risk to themselves, but more importantly they underestimate, ignore or don't care about the risk that they pose to others. And, until tested, nobody knows if they are carrying the virus or not.

There is overwhelming evidence that a high degree of compliance with physical (social) distancing is the most effective measure to control the spread of this and other viruses. That is not something that can be left up to individuals to decide on based on what they think is the risk to themselves.

A few isolated heavy handed actions by some law enforcement officers who perhaps didn't have clear enough guidelines on implementation is not a reason to weaken or abandon properly enforced distancing and isolation requirements.

On trade, yes important service exports like tourism and education will be impacted by extended border closures, but goods like minerals have continued to be exported and goods will flow in as exporting countries resume production.

There would have been no alternative to herd immunity (whatever that might mean with this particular virus) if we had done nothing to slow it down. Let a virus go unchecked and we can see how it could mutate like it did with H1N1-1918 into something that becomes devastating in the most robust members of the population. My idea (well not mine) is that we press on with an elimination strategy and take well informed decisions on the easing of restrictions while closely monitoring for any resurgence of the virus.

Here in SA testing has been a priority and is one of the reasons why our case numbers have been high for our population size, and testing is now available for anyone with any respiratory symptoms. An important next step towards eradication.

Previous supermARKET survey 28 March

Originally Posted by BobL

I counted about 600 people exiting the doors.
38 (6%) were wearing masks (I know masks offer little protection - to me its a sign of how serious people are about what is going on)
13 (2%) were wearing gloves (that includes SWMBO and the trolley collection guy) I'd rate gloves significantly more useful than masks - the feeltiest thing they're probably handling is the shopping trolley.

Latest Survey - same place but being mid week and we were there slightly less than half the time there were fewer people through the doors this time this time (only 201)
17% wearing masks (mostly Asians)
5.5% wearing gloves inlacing one bloke wearing one glove? Shopping trolley guy NOT wearing gloves
1 Bloke wearing full on safety goggles.

Even though its school holidays not as many families this time as last time.

Originally Posted by BobL

one bloke wearing one glove?

He'd probably just used his fingerprint to unlock his phone so he could pay - I've done exactly the same (one glove)

Originally Posted by BobL

Shopping trolley guy NOT wearing gloves

He'd be a dickhead.

I saw a lady in town yesterday that was wearing fingerless gloves

"Shopping trolley guy NOT wearing gloves
He'd be a dickhead."

I wouldn't have thought it would make much difference whether you wear gloves or not. The important thing is to not put your hands near your face and wash them frequently (or use santiser...)