Thread: Culture wars

Only problem with these sanctions is it is the people in the street who will suffer not the perpetrators

Originally Posted by China

Only problem with these sanctions is it is the people in the street who will suffer not the perpetrators

Not sure if I would call closing down Macca's "suffering" , some might call it a "blessing"?

I just watched a youtube video asking Russians on the street.
"Are you affected by the sanctions?"
The vast majority say no - which is good because aren't the sanctions meant to be affecting the oligarchs?
Not that you can trust Youtube to be even close to accurate.

There is a young Russian couple who post on YouTube, who have been showing the supermarket shelves being empty and high prices of thing like petrol etc, and while the prices do not seem high to us they are apparently in Russian terms over the top

This is a difficult topic: Contentious and controversial. Difficult in particular because of the Forum political rules, but I am hoping allowable because of the worldwide consequences of this conflict.

I am, and I imagine everybody else is, aghast at the developing situation in the Ukraine and the likely solution. On the one hand we have an apparent nut job, happily bombing non strategic targets and indiscriminately killing civilians including women and children. Is this deliberately provocative and does Putin actually want an all out war? This must be the fear of the West. On the other hand, what do you do? Do you allow the continued slaughter of Ukrainian citizens? What are the options? The Western nations could combine to assist Ukraine and as far as conventional warfare is concerned would likely persuade the invading forces that they were on a hiding to nothing. Logically, this would work, Although not necessarily with a nut job at the helm.

He is just as likely to keep going, but even more so he might use his nuclear capability despite the fact that ultimately he probably would not win that one either and it would be far from his best interests: Actually I think everybody would agree it is in nobody's interest. So for the moment we resort to the second option of economic sanctions and isolation from Western resources. I would argue that this has not been done quick enough or hard enough, but the object is to hit all of Russia hard. Would it produce an uprising and cause Putin to be toppled? Hopefully. However, it is the powerful in Russia who would accomplish this and not the man in the street. Both groups are going to suffer, but this is the price they pay for "allowing" their nut job to undertake this course of action.

The Ukranians are certainly suffering. Many are paying the ultimate price: This is just not right.

Regards
Paul

Don't forget the other very large asian country that is quietly backing him without going too hard publicly against him, each needs the other for a whole variety of reasons including logistically and idealogical, they will scratch each others back.
If anyone follows Gravitas, they did a very good historical background to the conflict
Gravitas Plus | Explained: The Russia-Ukraine crisis - YouTube

I believe nuclear is just a threat no point in destroying the country you want for the next 200 years.

Originally Posted by rwbuild

Don't forget the other very large asian country that is quietly backing him without going too hard publicly against him, each needs the other for a whole variety of reasons including logistically and idealogical, they will scratch each others back.
If anyone follows Gravitas, they did a very good historical background to the conflict
Gravitas Plus | Explained: The Russia-Ukraine crisis - YouTube

Thanks Ray

A very good link. As said, historical colonialism does not exonerate or justify extreme military intervention: The world and it's attitudes have moved on, but not in Putin's eyes.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by China

I believe nuclear is just a threat no point in destroying the country you want for the next 200 years.

China

I would hope you are right, but the world in general has always been fearful of a rogue at the helm whether that be in the East or the West. It remains to be seen what safeguards there are in Russia to ward off an attack. I recall there was an incident quite a few years back where a nuclear retaliation was only just averted because a lowly military man thought it must be a bogus situation and did not retaliate. That leads me to believe there is precious little stopping a nut job pressing a button.

Ukraine is the jewel in Eastern Europe regarding resources. Putin wishes to enhance his standing in the Russian community and he has embarked on this action to promote his place in Russia. Retreat may not be an option as saving face at this point may be the most important thing on his mind. Defeat or a backdown would have the opposite result to the original action.

Regards
Paul

That was an interesting watch rwbuild. Here is another video which seeks to explain it from a security and economic view which I found enlightening.

Why Russia is Invading Ukraine - YouTube

Perhaps as much, if not more, worrying than Russia's nuclear sabre rattling is that between them, Russia and the Ukraine produce something like a quarter of the world's wheat. If this is disrupted due to both conflict and sanctions, it would have a massive impact on global food supplies.
Quite apart from oil and gas, Russia is also the source of huge volumes of phosphates used in the production of fertilizers. One commentator recently said that, if that supply was disrupted, it could lead to a reduction of as much as 50% in crop yields around the world.
From what we have experienced with disruptions to the global supply chain, first due to the pandemic and now this conflict, perhaps it's time to re-think the concept of the 'global village' and the amount of inter dependency we have come to accept.
Pete

Originally Posted by woodhutt

Perhaps as much, if not more, worrying than Russia's nuclear sabre rattling is that between them, Russia and the Ukraine produce something like a quarter of the world's wheat.

Russia produces abut 11% of the world's wheat and Ukraine (3%) produces a little less than Australia (4%).
Top Wheat Producing Countries - WorldAtlas
However I agree that that the issue about fertiliser is significant

What I was hoping for from my original post was for a discussion about cultural rather than economic or military wars.
In some ways cultural battles and attempts at cultural domination attempts are far more interesting, subtle and even unintentional.
I'm wondering what the huge question outside a closing Macca's in Moscow says about the state of Russian fast food? - if such a thing even exists.
I was staggered to see how crowded the ultra-processed stuff served at Dunking Donuts outlets was in Tokyo.
Especially given how nutritious and tasty ordinary Japanese food is.

Former MI6 Chief On the Ukraine & Russia Conflict | Oxford Union - YouTube

A diplomat's perspective but worth a look IMO.

Personally I think Putin has decades of experience taking the measure of the world's "leaders" and knows just how far he can go. On the other hand his recent public comments ramble and smack of someone unhinged. I don't know why nor how this will pan out, but it's already awful and no doubt will get worse.

Don't forget they murdered innocent Australians among others on that plane they shot down.

Originally Posted by BobL

Russia produces abut 11% of the world's wheat and Ukraine (3%) produces a little less than Australia (4%).
Top Wheat Producing Countries - WorldAtlas
However I agree that that the issue about fertiliser is significant

I stand corrected although, even making a total of only +/-15% of global wheat production unavailable would have a huge impact.

To address the original question of culture wars, I think that is a battle lost. I remember the then French President, De Gaulle back in the late 60's lambasting the increasing encroachment of US culture into French culture, referring to the process as "Coca Colonization".
I think the proliferation of (largely) US fast food franchises was probably seen as beneficial (not in dietary terms) as part of the globalization process, reducing everyone to a common consumer with similar aims and ambitions.
Pete

Originally Posted by woodhutt

I stand corrected although, even making a total of only +/-15% of global wheat production unavailable would have a huge impact.

Most Western people could easily afford to eat 15% less than they do now especially given they end up throwing away ~30% of what they buy.