Thread: Election

Originally Posted by Christopha

And just when did you arrive from your alternative universe????

You may be right. There's a lot of red necks on this planet.

Unions can be useful and sometimes they can do a lot of damage and need laws to control them. A bit like limited liability companies, drugs, dogs and table saws, really.

In any case, the decline in union membership (about one in seven private sector workers and falling) means the setting and enforcement of wages and conditions for most workers is now in the political domain.

By that I mean the parliament rather than industrial courts now does these things. The third alternative - leaving it up to market forces - has now been rejected by the electorate.

I would imagine the ALP would be very keen to show the anti-union scare campaign was wrong. Time will tell.

Originally Posted by Koala-Man

Unions can be useful and sometimes they can do a lot of damage and need laws to control them. A bit like limited liability companies, drugs, dogs and table saws, really.

In any case, the decline in union membership (about one in seven private sector workers and falling) means the setting and enforcement of wages and conditions for most workers is now in the political domain.

By that I mean the parliament rather than industrial courts now does these things. The third alternative - leaving it up to market forces - has now been rejected by the electorate.

I would imagine the ALP would be very keen to show the anti-union scare campaign was wrong. Time will tell.

Well written. Balanced and fair. Exactly the type of open-minded and intelligent post I like.

the decline in union membership

I find myself wondering how much that has to do with the decline in relevance of unions under the Howard government's anti-union policies. Will be interesting to see if that statistic changes in the next couple of years.

the sky is falling!
Cheers
Michael

Are you being sarcastic?

Originally Posted by mic-d

the sky is falling!
Cheers
Michael

Originally Posted by silentC

Are you being sarcastic?

Nah its just raining up there

A couple of things unions have achieved that I doubt anyone would have got any other way; Sick leave, Annual leave, Workers Comp, OH&S legislation, Superannuation. We regard them as normal but at the beginning of the 20thC they were not at all available for the bulk of the population.

I remember being called out to strike because the shop steward wanted a few days off, or it costing about $300 to join the union before I could get a start on a building site. Or having my car beat up by fellow staff members who were being egged on by a firebrand because I refused to go out with them.

As with all things unions cut both ways, I hope Aus can move on from the bigotry and institutionalised hatred of those who are different from the official position. This is the biggest challenge in recovering from the Howard years. Ask any Muslim,

Sebastiaan

Originally Posted by Sebastiaan56

costing about $300 to join the union before I could get a start on a building site.
Sebastiaan

Therein lies one point of my hatred towards unions - extortion. You can't work for someone who has employed you because someone else demands that you fill his pockets on a weekly basis with union fees.

If ever the day comes when a union tries to muscle into the advertising industry and walks into my door he'll never wish he tried.

Sure they have a place, but it's with a big but.

My old man loves to tell the story of the day a union official came into his sheet metal works wanting to speak to the union rep (there wasn't one). He backed him all the way out of the shop and told him if he ever set foot on his property again, he'd set the dog on him (big nasty looking German Shepherd called Major). He never came back. I suppose if we'd been in Sydney or somewhere, he'd have come back with a few mates.

Originally Posted by Sebastiaan56

We regard them as normal but at the beginning of the 20thC they were not at all available for the bulk of the population.

You are absolutely correct Sebastiaan, the unions did a great job... but that was 100 years ago.

The slave abolition guys did a great job too 100 years before that, but they aren't too bothered about being in business now.

It's a bit tough to blame the Howard government for a distrust of the Muslim community though, or any other ethnic community for that matter. Sadly the lack of integration was commenced if I recall correctly, with a policy of "multi culturalism" introduced by the Whitlam Government.

Before that, we were all Australians, or "New Australians" and life wasn't bad, even for the wogs!

P

Originally Posted by bitingmidge

You are absolutely correct Sebastiaan, the unions did a great job... but that was 100 years ago.

tell that to this guy

Originally Posted by bitingmidge

Before that, we were all Australians, or "New Australians" and life wasn't bad, even for the wogs!

Sorry Midge, disagree. We emigrated when I was four. As a kid I was an effin wog, I changed the way I walked home from school as often as I could to avoid being beaten up by the Aussies. Didnt always work. Bigotry was more prevalent and open then. From memory teachers were often the worst. Things improved as my english improved but modern immigrants have it much better in some respects. I have a big hot spot around bigotry. The powerful screwing the weak ticks me off big time.

Pity the Muslims, the mutual emnity has gone on for centuries http://www.newstatesman.com/200304070040 but Howard's style of wedge politics needed an enemy. Menzies had the cold war, Howard desperately needed some kind of other. 9/11, Children Overboard etc were his salvation. That said it was labour who started the camps for refugees, we will see.....

Waldo, As I said... a mixed bag, the truth is usually a mixed up greyish affair. Im finding it more difficult to be absolutist as I get older.

Sebastiaan

[/QUOTE]:but Howard's style of wedge politics needed an enemy.
Sebastiaan[/QUOTE]

what carp.