Thread: Electric, Hybrid or Just Wait

Mick, short range hybrids are intended to do two things, cover most if not all the average trip to work or the shopping centre and lower the average emission levels to comply with European legislation. The ECU has imposed lower levels of emissions on a fleet average from each manufacturer and from a date which escapes me if the manufacturer exceeds the fleet average required they will be fined MILLIONS of Euros per DAY for each breach. These fines are what is driving the charge to zero tail pipe emissions as it will bankrupt any manufacturer very fast.

Keep in mind that you will need a charger in both Oberon and Sydney and for your purposes a long range Tesla would seem to be the obvious choice. What I don't like about the Tesla is the stark interior and learning how to use the screen will be a task. I don't know what the high end European manufacturers have available in Oz but I was told yesterday by my son who works for Mazda that Mazda are going to introduce a third option in Oz and that is a range extender, they also intend to introduce a full electric vehicle this year but it it will be a metro only car due to lack of range.

The range extender will have a very small rotary motor driving a generator so when the battery voltage falls the generator kicks in and out as needed. To my knowledge this will be a first for cars in the world and should be ideal for Oz having no limit on electric range.

I would like to buy a full electric car but most of the capable ones are way more than I want or need to spend so I am going to wait and see what happens. A hybrid to me only increases the complication of a vehicle for no practical reason. If a full electric vehicle won't do the job then buy a car with an internal combustion engine in it. If anyone has some spare cash can they please buy me a Porsche Taycan, any colour will do.

I've spent a bit of time in my brother's Telsa and I'm sold on them. I would have bought one to replace our Subaru if SWMBO did not need a vehicle that was capable of towing a horse float with two horses I was also a bit put off by the stark interior of the Tesla but now I'm used to it. For me a vehicle should be primarily safe, require minimum attention, and be as unobtrusive as possible and it seems to do this very well.

FWIW my brother has been able to get his Air BNB property located about 60km from Perth designated as a Tesla destination changing point. Provided your electrical system can handle it this higher than average charging point is installed at no charge. His other semi-regular country run is 270km where there is a fast charging station.

Diesel for me for as long as we're allowed.
The goal is to keep the car I have and run it to the ground, depreciate it 10 times over. Stupid money pits.
I do however have an electric bicycle, same goal as above. Love the thing and ride it everywhere when it doesn't rain, only problem is it has some nylon cogs in the motor so it'll probably die earlier than the car.

Sorry for the totally irrelevant response

I bought a Toyota RAV4 hybrid. After 10,000kms averaging 5lts/100km. I live 10k out of Bundaberg, drive 2-3 times a week with trips to Brisbane.

Spyro nylon cogs are no problem if you have a 3D printer.

Battery tech is advancing so quickly that if you don't need a new car now, then it's worth waiting. I also have this (probably vain) hope that one of those fat, balding middle-age dinosaur politicians might actually face up to the future and get some incentives to go electric on the board.

Tesla are so far ahead of the game that I suspect it's going to be hard for traditional manufacturers to catch up - you'll need to skip ahead at times to avoid the bumpf, but this 2019 Tesla presentation will give you an idea of the incredible tech in their cars, and why they are so far ahead with their neural network and machine learning in the cars. There's a similar presentation on their battery tech.

The issue is price. They are just staggeringly expensive, as is cost of ownership (when I bought my oil-burner a couple of years ago, the Model S was the most expensive car to own in Aus). Australian models don;t seem to get all the features our international cousins do either - you can't get a tow hitch as a model 3 option here, whereas you can in Europe. The model Y is due sometime - it has a tow option in the US... who knows if we get it here. At the moment you'll need the most expensive tesla - the Model X - if you want to do anything as agricultural as towing.

The next gen Model S and X look a considerable step up, particularly with the interior (good to see an extra screen now as a more traditional instrument cluster) - due later this year or probably early next here as we are the butt-end of the world, I think they'd be worth waiting for if you have that kind of money to spend. I'm sure the tech will trickle down to the marginally less insanely expensive models.

Originally Posted by fxst

Spyro nylon cogs are no problem if you have a 3D printer.

I know, and 3D printers are not a problem if you have a factory that makes 3D printers, and so forth

No seriously I'd love a 3D printer, unfortunately I've run out of both space and time (to learn how to use it)

Just purely logical
In the LA Metro Area (LAMA) you can go 225 miles (365 Km) in a day point A to point B and return without thinking. An electric vehicle with a 250 or 275 range is pushing it but not impossible. Normal traffic in the LAMA can reduce range by 25% or 30%.

Putting petrol (gasoline) in a vehicle is typically a 5 to 10 minute task.

Restoring the energy in an electric vehicle to just half capacity is a 30 to 45 minute task at best.

An electrical vehicle would be ideal for my wife. Her 5 year old Explorer has less than 14,000 miles on it. She rarely drives beyond the city limits of Huntington Beach and then only less than 10 miles. An electric charging station connected to the shop (garage) electrical breaker panel could be easily self installed. (Yeah we can do that sort of stuff here without a sparky.)

Let's move from the logical into reality and enter into the candy a*r*s*e realm. I think that it has been 20 years since my wife put petrol into her vehicle. Even running the vehicle through a car wash probably has been at least 30 years but probably more. She is very good at reporting what warning lights and gauges say when things are not just right.

So, for her to plug the vehicle into the power point in the shop? Surely you jest. In our case, an electric would suffice until I kicked off. After that I don't know. In all probability a hybrid would be better for now and the years after I kick off. She could always go to the petrol station and ask for assistance.

There is another issue. I drive a F-150 pick-up truck. The F-150 is our primary vehicle when going some place and hauling home timber. BTW - The F-150 rides better than the Explorer and gets much better mileage. Don't bring mileage into the conversation. It is the driver but my wife doesn't believe it. Also the F-150 is much more comfortable sitting and just getting in and out. We are old pharts so that is understandable.

When we travel (Las Vegas, Phoenix, Portland Oregon) we use the F-150. These destinations do not have charging stations. There are few charging stations along the route. Most of the charging stations are of the "park it here all day" types. Using anything other than a petroleum based fuel is just not practicable for the F-150. Would hybrid work in the F-150? Yes it probably would be OK and the added weight of the batteries would only improve the ride. But if you already have the internal combustion motor, why deal with the complication of hybrid? Besides the initial cost would take years to even out vs. a pure internal combustion motor. What I'm seeing here is about $4000US premium for hybrid.

This doesn't answer the question but when has that ever stopped me?

Having dealt with a lot of different rental cars here in Japan, I have to say, some of the small capacity (1.0L) motors with twin turbo/superchargers/whatever magic they do to them matched with CVT's of all kinds, are kind of incredible. Some of the ugly, boxy cars here are my favourite now. Impossibly practical, more go than you'd think they have any right to give, and stupidly low consumption. I'm not convinced the combustion engine is at the end of its life just yet, though the days are numbered.

500km range from a 5 minute charge, and we'll be there. I suspect that is a lot closer than we imagine, and I think it will be the Japanese that do it with Korea and China bringing it to the masses.

We are in the limbo between full electric and the end of ICE with the hybrid as a band aid to get us over the hump. Mick, you have been used to driving European cars and I reckon getting into a Tesla would be a major shock and learning to use it would be a bigger one. They are number 1 at the moment but the Europeans are just getting their act together and Volvo is one of the leaders. Jaguar announced the other day that every new model released from 2021 onwards would be full electric but they haven't released any new models as yet. You can hire a Tesla to get the feel for it and that might be a good idea and give me ride if you do. Rent or test drive a Tesla in Australia l Electric car hire | evee

Would you be interested in taking a classic car and putting in an electric motor/battery management system?

I personally find these to be an attractive proposition. The cars are nicer, more stylish.


One could get the car, have it professionally restored, put an evil electric motor in and it would go like lightning.

Black_1960_Beetle_electric.jpg 12913108335_85c93440ca_k-980x653.jpg

Ssseeexxyyyy!!!!!!

Originally Posted by Bernmc

Tesla are so far ahead of the game that I suspect it's going to be hard for traditional manufacturers to catch up - you'll need to skip ahead at times to avoid the bumpf, but this 2019 Tesla presentation will give you an idea of the incredible tech in their cars, and why they are so far ahead with their neural network and machine learning in the cars. There's a similar presentation on their battery tech..

Yep , their data integration is quickly leaving everything else in the dust.
The first thing Tesla recommended my brother did with his car was to park it within a trusted WIFI network whereby it upgraded its software and it does that every few weeks. At the same time it backloads a heap of driver data to Telsa. They use this data to improve their cars and as of late last year Telsa had over 1 billion miles of "experience data" from its cars. THE nearest competitor had was around 10 million miles of data.

My brother's Model 3 has a 3rd party tow hitch. Probably a copy of the European version, - it's not strictly approved but apparently many owners are putting them on. The car knows when it's towing and reports this - free testing for Telsa is probably they way they look at it.

Originally Posted by woodPixel

Would you be interested in taking a classic car and putting in an electric motor/battery management system?

I personally find these to be an attractive proposition. The cars are nicer, more stylish.


One could get the car, have it professionally restored, put an evil electric motor in and it would go like lightning.

Black_1960_Beetle_electric.jpg 12913108335_85c93440ca_k-980x653.jpg

Ssseeexxyyyy!!!!!!

It's an idea but I think I'll stick with tailor made. I also like the car to corner and stop; more or less matching the power plant.

It's a bit off topic but SWMBO has just traded her Mazda 3 for a Fiat Abarth 595 Competizione. Abarth 595 & 595C | Abarth® Australia (fiat.com.au) NOW THAT'S A CAR! BTW Chris, if this is an example of a modern petrol powered car, the electronic systems are unbelievably complicated. I thought aircraft systems were bad enough and there's no simulator available.

Back on topic, it looks like the fuel economy of the RAV4 drops from 9.1L/100Km to 5.3L/100Km. I agree with the additional complexity argument and it may suit an Uber driver, but I can't see the value in a hybrid.

If I only did relatively short hops, I'd jump into an EV right now; possibly a Tesla. But I want the flexibility and convenience of my current vehicles. I could deal with a 15 minute break every 200 kms but there just aren't enough fast recharging stations in rural locations to make it worthwhile. I live in an apartment in Sydney and like most, there are no power outlets in the garage, much less in each car space. Goodness knows how many amps would be needed to recharge multiple cars overnight in a block of flats.

I wonder why no one has come up with a car which allows a fully charged battery swap.

I think I'll wait for EVs to catch up. I

mick

Originally Posted by q9

500km range from a 5 minute charge, and we'll be there. I suspect that is a lot closer than we imagine, and I think it will be the Japanese that do it with Korea and China bringing it to the masses.

It's not the range that's holding it back, it's the cost.
Make it cheaper to buy+run than the similar petrol ones and people will buy them, range or no range.