Thread: English language

Those of us who use English, spoken or written; first second or third language, as our main means of communication are fortunate. English is a very flexible tongue. It has an enormous vocabulary - much bigger than most other languages - and it is in a constant state of change and evolution. If you want to get a perspective on the manner and extent of that change you only have to pick up a novel set a few decades ago, say during WWII, and read the dialogue. People say things quite differently now.

One of the drivers of change in the language is that people have, over a long time, made spelling and grammatical mistakes and these have slowly evolved into acceptance. As a current example, the words "imply" and "infer" have quite distinct and different meanings. However, people tend to use them interchangeably. As a consequence, they are slowly becoming actually interchangeable. I think the latest edition of the Oxford Dictionary acknowledges the change.

Don't get too excited about the mistakes. English is robust enough to withstand the shock.

Having said all that, I absolutely agree that teaching standards are a bloody disgrace. If students were taught the rules they would at least have an appreciation of the richness of our language.

End of lecture (steps down from soapbox)!

Col

Non illegitimus carborundum.

Robert, I agree with you - it actually means nothing at all but I always understood that its transliteration was: "Don't let the bastards grind you down".

Sapientia janua vitae

Col

Originally posted by Driver


Sapientia janua vitae

Col

Translation

A Spanish sapien ( guy ) is alive, and called Janau.

This is a good game.

Correct English is one thing. Typos from 2 fingered speed typing is another entirely.

When my daughter was going to school here in Brisbane, I had constant battles with her English teachers. They themselves had not been taught English properly and so they were unable to pass on correct knowledge to my daughter. I was a constant source of embarrassment to her. J

Including my wife, there are six members of the immediate family who are teachers. Of these, one in particular is a head of department in English language. Her husband is a remedial teacher for various schools. I was talking to them the other day and the English teacher said that something was “the furtherest away from them.” I took her to task over this and she vigorously defended herself. Meanwhile, her husband had gone off to look the word up a dictionary. He came back very surprised and told her that I was correct and that there was no such word as ‘furtherest,’ and that the correct word was either ‘furthest’ or ‘farthest.’

The point I am trying to make is that our children have little chance of learning the way to use their language, when being taught by people who themselves are not aware that they are not teaching the right thing. .. That sentence was more convoluted that I intended.

My daughter went on to University where it became immediately apparent to her that her educators at this level did take English usage seriously. She now uses her skills in language in her job all the time (she writes for a living) and bemoans the lack of proper education in our junior schools.

Ps. another thing that drives me crazy is hearing people saying ‘youse’ as a plural of ‘you.’ I work at a large mail center in Brisbane that employs over 450 people and the manager’s introductory phrase when giving us a talk was always “How are youse all?”

Pps. Maybe I am an English language Nazi, although I do try not to be too obnoxiously so.

Bob,

You are spot on (or should i say "on spot").

The rot set in when the standard of news readers on the ABC took a dive. One could always rely on the correct use of English on the ABC.

Politicians are gross offenders Pm says he does "as best as he can", and has the hide to criticise schools.

"Brilliant" sports achievements particularly in the football codes also annoys me! "Brilliance" has to do with the thought process, not the sporting achievements of the seemingly illiterate (an overpaid) "star".

Glenn

Bob,


I do not have any problems with what you said and in fact I prefer to read a post that is well written.

However your post that started this discussion was a bit sharp and maybe discouraging to members who, although their English or spelling may be poor, have a lot to contribute to this Board. After all it is woodworking board not a language board.

In any case your typo or spelling mistake was too good an opportunity to let go.


Peter.

I thoroughly agree with you Peter.
If I had seen a similar mistake in somebody else’s post, I also would have jumped on it with huge glee.

I admit that I purposely made my original posting a tad tart. This was intentional as I hoped to stir just the sort of reaction that I obtained. It was NOT ever intended to discourage anybody from having a go at anything and if this is what has happened then I do apologise to anybody I may have intimidated.

Ah Glenn, sportspeople eh?


What about the Cricket Test match between England and West Indies; one of the commentators said: "The bowler's Holding, the batsman's Willey"

"Moses Kiptanui - the 19 year old Kenyan, who turned 20 a few weeks ago" (David Coleman)

"He's pulling him off! The Spanish manager is pulling his captain off!" (RTE's George Hamilton on Spain manager Luis Suarez's substitution of Butragueno during their world cup qualifier with Ireland in Seville,1992).

"The black players at this club lend the side a lot of skill and flair, but you also need white players in there to balance things up and give the team some brains and some common sense." (Crystal Palace chairman Ron Noades, speaking in 1991).

"Bill Frindal has done a bit of mental arithmetic with a calculator" (John Arlott)

"We actually got the winner three minutes from the end but then they equalized" (Ian McNail)

"I've never had major knee surgery on any other part of my body" (Winston Bennett)

"The lead car is absolutely unique, except for the one behind it which is identical" (Murray Walker)

"I owe a lot to my parents, especially my mother and father" (Greg Norman)

"Sure there have been injuries and deaths in boxing - but none of them serious" (Alan Minter)

"The racecourse is as level as a billiard ball" (John Francombe)

"If history repeats itself, I should think we can expect the same thing again" (Terry Venables)

'We'll still be happy if we lose. It's on at the same time as the Beer Festival' (Noel O' Mahony, Cork City boss before the game in Munich

'I would not say he (David Ginola) is the best left winger in the Premiership, but there are none better'. (Ron Atkinson).

'He dribbles a lot and the opposition don't like it - you can see it all over their faces.' (Ron Atkinson)

'I never comment on referees and I'm not going to break the habit of a lifetime for that prat.' (Ron Atkinson)

'It took a lot of bottle for Tony (Adams) to own up.' (Ian Wright -commenting on his teammate's alcoholism)

Ah, isn't that nice, the wife of the Cambridge president is kissing the cox of the Oxford crew.' (Harry Carpenter - BBC TV Boat Race 1977)

'Here we are in the Holy Land of Israel - a Mecca for tourists.' (David Vine)

'Morcelli has four fastest 1500-metre times ever. And all those times are at 1500 metres.' (David Coleman)

'Julian Dicks is everywhere. It's like they've got eleven Dicks on the field.' (Metro Radio)

' ....and later we will have action from the men's cockless pairs ...' (Sue Barker).

'Her time is about 4.33, which she's capable of.'(David Coleman)

Dennis Pennis: 'Have you ever thought of writing your autobiography?' Chris Eubank: ' On what ? '

'Well, you gave the horse a wonderful ride, everybody saw that' (Desmond Lynam)

'To play Holland, you have to play the Dutch.' (Ruud Gullit)

'Well , either side could win it, or it could be a draw.' (Ron Atkinson)

'For those of you watching in black and white, Spurs are in the all-yellow strip' (John Motson)

'Strangely, in slow motion replay, the ball seemed to hang in the air for even longer.' (David Acfield)

'What will you do when you leave football, Jack - will you stay in football?' (Stuart Hall - Radio 5 live)

'I'd like to play for an Italian club, like Barcelona' (Mark Draper - Aston Villa)

'There goes Juantorena down the back straight, opening his legs and showing his class' (David Coleman at The Montreal Olympics)

'And for those of you who watched the last programme (Fanny and Johnny Craddock), I hope all your doughnuts turn out like Fanny's' (David Coleman at the start of Match of The Day)

'...and Ray Illingworth is relieving himself in front of the pavilion'
(John Arlott)

'These greens are so fast they must bikini wax them' (Gary McCord on the greens at Augusta)

'One of the reasons Arnie (Arnold Palmer) is playing so well is that, before each tee-shot, his wife takes out his balls and kisses them - Oh my God, what have I just said?' (USTV commentator)

Bob,

We'll have to get intellectual here: Useful Latin phrases

Quis pili facit Man Utd ?

Solus numquam vades

Nos detestamini ? Facimus nihili

Nemo me impune lacessit

Caveat irea homeni patienteae

Glenn

Quis pili facit Man Utd ? (Who the fu#k are Man Utd?)

Solus numquam vades (You'll never walk alone)

Nos detestamini ? Facimus nihili (Nobody likes us, we don't care).

Nemo me impune lacessit ("No one injures (attacks) me with impunity)

Caveat irea homeni patienteae (Beware the fury of a patient man)

I cheated, I had to look them all up because although I could recognise some of the words, it is over 45 years since I studied Latin and I wasn't that good at it even then.

Geoff’s earlier comment about being hit over the head with a book stirred a memory for me. I can still remember my Latin teacher standing behind a boy and hitting him on the head with a (heavy) book whilst saying: Amo, amas, amat, amamus, amati, amant. The boy in question stood up and floored the teacher.

Bob, doesn't "Willson" have one "L" too many?

Bob,
If posts are going to be judged by correct spelling and grammar then this is not the place for me. Writing is a form of communication and so are hand signals, winks, morse code, binary and the indicator lights on your vehicle. If it is interpreted correctly then it is effective.
I would hate to think that people would not contribute to this forum for fear of being criticized about their spelling or grammar.
Off the soapbox now

Bob - To get a job as a shop assistant one must be able to say, "Yous right?" and must also be able to respond with a blank look when the reply to the question is "No we's ain!"

To get a job as a weather announcer one must be able to change any number ending nty to enny, eg Twenty = twenny, etc.

Just a couple of every day words (sayings) that really bug me.

Oh yes, nearly forgot these one's'. Why does everything ending with s now get written 's? What ever happened to s' and s just because it was the plural? When did gotten become part of our everyday language and why? :confused:

Cheers - Neil

PS This little rhyme is from the front of "A Polishers Handbook". After running the entire book through the spell checker and having it proof read 5 times by different people we still found errors, and I still get the odd phone call from a spelling Nazi from time to time.

I have a grate spell chequer,
It came with my PC
It plainly marks for my revue
Miss takes I cannot sea
I've run this poem threw it,
I'm shore your pleased two no,
It's letter perfect in its weigh.
My chequer tolled me sew!!!

Hi Christopher

You are thinking of the common or low life Wilsons, they only have one L in their names. The upper class Willsons do of course have two Ls so that the proletariat may easily recognise them as royalty and make appropriate bowing gestures.

Ubeaut

Just calm down and take it easy, or somebody will accuse you of having Nazi tendencies. Don't you like Americanisms?