Thread: Future of the Australian Electricity Market

Originally Posted by Warb

I've never been to Norway, but much of what I've read, and discussed with various people over the years, suggests that they have a very different outlook from much of the world. I have postulated that this is a result of the climate. It seems to me that countries with very cold climates often seem far more "community" oriented than warmer places, and I wonder if this is a direct result of that cold climate. People without shelter and food don't survive the winter, and perhaps (historically?) people who don't help others, are in turn not helped by others. The result is a culture and mindset in which everyone pulls together, and there are perhaps fewer "freeloaders" than in warmer climates. If this is the case, it would explain how schemes like the universal income are easier to implement, as people will tend to do the right thing and try to contribute as well as take. Maybe the same culture or state of mind means that implementing climate friendly solutions and schemes is easier, as outright profit and personal gain are less important than community and survival?

Warb

This is my first time in Norway so there is a huge learning curve for me too. i think you may be being overly generous towards the Norwegians as they are not necessarily more ecologically inclined than average. However, they have some distinct advantages over many other countries. Firstly, they managed their natural resources well and have wealth from those resources of which the main one was oil from the North sea. They did not give the profit away to multinational companies. Secondly, their electricity comes from initially hydro schemes and also wind. So they were not polluting much right from the get go.

My impression is that they have two grids. One in the North and the other in the South. The Southern grid is connected to Europe, supplies into that market and as a consequence is much more expensive than the Northern grid.

Where we are, in Tromsø (pronounced "Tromser," because of the "ø") we are about 350Km above the Arctic Circle. However, the climate is showing signs of warming here too. For example, the tree line is gradually going higher and this has an adverse effect, ironically to my mind, on the creatures that live there. Secondly, it rains more often instead of snowing. Nothing and nowhere is immune it would seem.

A small digression, so back to electricity in Oz.



Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

A small digression, so back to electricity in Oz.

...or not. Keen to hear more about the situation in Norway, actually.

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

... the tree line is gradually going higher

Yairs....so is my hairline...is climate change responsible for that too? It never used to be this high.

Must have been a great experience, Paul, holding that brand new grandchild for the first time. Enjoy family ... and Norway.

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

the climate is showing signs of warming here too. For example, the tree line is gradually going higher

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

... ... Yairs....so is my hairline...is climate change responsible for that too? It never used to be this high.

Definite correlation. Climate change is ubiquitous.

[QUOTE=FenceFurniture;2329467]...or not. Keen to hear more about the situation in Norway, actually.


FF

Maybe not in this thread: Don't want to offend the OP!

Perhaps when I return to Oz I will start a new thread. We'll see: No promises.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

Must have been a great experience, Paul, holding that brand new grandchild for the first time. Enjoy family ... and Norway.





Definite correlation. Climate change is ubiquitous.

Graeme

Yes to all statements.



Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Maybe not in this thread: Don't want to offend the OP!

In my experience the OP is pretty hard to offend, but I meant more about the sparks & cars situation in Norway. (happy to read a thread on your tour though)

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

In my experience the OP is pretty hard to offend, but I meant more about the sparks & cars situation in Norway. (happy to read a thread on your tour though)

OK. This link may be of interest as to why Norway is so far ahead with EVs.

Norway – the EV capital of the world

and in particular:

"we have more than 3000 public charging stations, and 7753 fast chargers, all over the country. Say goodbye to range anxiety!"

All that is in quite a small country in terms of physical size, although long and slim, and a population of 5.4million.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

All that is in quite a small country in terms of physical size, although long and slim, and a population of 5.4million.

Like many/most economists I have long admired the economic management of Norway. For a long time they have successfully placed long term national interests of the population ahead of vested interests and party bickering. And it has largely worked. The only other country on that list is Switzerland; Japan fell off 30+ years ago and has not yet refocused.

But I actually know virtually nothing about Norway; Paul's comments catalysed me to look up some data and try and put it in perspective:

Size: 385,000 km2 - just under half the size of NSW - 801,000 km2

Length: 1,750 kms - about the same as the distance from Melbourne to Brisbane

Population: 5.4 million - about the same as Queensland

Sovereign Wealth Funds: US$1,555 billion - slightly larger than the Saudi SWF and about five times larger than the Australian and USA equivalents.

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

Length: 1,750 kms - about the same as the distance from Melbourne to Brisbane.

Interestingly they supposedly have the longest coastline in the world>

Originally Posted by BobL

Interestingly they supposedly have the longest coastline in the world>

Yes, because of the severe indentations of the fjords.

Regards
Paul

Here is a rational take on nuclear energy:

Attention Required! | Cloudflare

This is the thrust of the article:

There’s no danger of a nuclear power plant being built in Australia, but it’s banned anyway."

and

"But apart from the fact that it makes no sense, the main reason for Labor to remove the ban, you would think, is that advocating nuclear generation is the Coalition’s only energy policy; without being against the ban, which the Coalition itself imposed, it would have no policy at all and would have to think of something sensible."

In addition, it leaves open the nuclear path should the multitude of issues ever be resolved.

Regards
Paul

I just finished watching Insiders where Dan Tehan was talking up the Coalition's loss in the Dunkley by-election yesterday as "a fabulous result" for the Coalition (there was an absolutely stock standard swing against the sitting Govt of ~3.5% (expected, as usual, as is the way in by-elections) so...

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

"... the Coalition itself imposed, [and] it would have no policy at all and would have to think of something sensible."

...this might be a little way off yet.

We need strong Oppositions to hold whatever flavour Govt of the day to account, but what we have now appears to be a version of AI (Artificial Idiots).

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

Size: 385,000 km2 - just under half the size of NSW - 801,000 km2

They have 3463 public charging stations, so ignoring places where you can't drive (for ease of calculation) that's one station per 111 km². Call it 100 km², and it's a 10x10km square...the longest you have to drive in this perfect grid is 28km, assuming you have to drive across 2 diagonals of 14km each.

Australia has a way to go yet...

There is a company in Norway that specialises in building small power plants in conjunction with the landholders. There is one these behind where our son lives. I will have a little more on this once I get back to Oz, but in the meantime here is a link.

Our partner: Smakraft AS - Climate Futures

Regards
Paul