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  1. #841
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    I too installed a heat pump HWS recently reasoning that it will draw from out solar panels during the day and be switched of at night. ....
    What did you put in, Chris? And are you :
    • Using solar thermal panels as part of the heat exchanger, or
    • powering it from solar voltaic panels, or
    • something else?

    A mates just put in a Stiebel Eltron heat pump
    powering both his hot water and radiator panels in most rooms. He's keeps raving about it!

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  3. #842
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Parks View Post
    I too installed a heat pump HWS recently reasoning that it will draw from out solar panels during the day and be switched of at night. I have changed my thinking about solar this year, don't export it, use it all and if you can't use it all the system is too big. As an aside this is the 2nd heat pump we have had, we did have a Siddons many years ago, they were the original developers of the technology but these new ones are far better.
    Not sure which heat pump HWS you have, but I just programmed our Sanden unit to only operate between 11.00am and 3pm when we have plenty of solar going spare. It only draws 900W for about an hour, and we've never run out of hot water (only 2 people in the house).

    No home storage battery here, but a couple of months ago I ordered and put a deposit on one of these

    EVDirect.com.au | BYD Atto 3 - Electric Cars

    Expected delivery November/December (I got the long range version). I'll be installing a Zappi home charger which can be set to use only excess solar, or only cheapest rate off peak, or "just charge the car, dammit" mode.

    We only get 10.2c/kWh for solar exported to the grid, so I'd rather use it all myself if possible.

  4. #843
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    My son told me today that the dealership he works for was getting a BYD franchise so he might get a company car when that happens. He hates Chinese cars having worked on one but if it is free I am sure he will change his view.
    CHRIS

  5. #844
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodPixel View Post
    Here is a bit of skookum for you.

    This bad girl (Christine) is the steam turbine of France's newest nuclear reactor.

    70 meters long and it can produce enough electricity to power all of Paris - 1650MW
    WP

    I think that must be Unit No.3 at Flamanville, which commenced construction in 2007 with a budget of 3.3 billion Euros. It still has not been commissioned and the budget so far has blown out to 12.7 billion Euros! When it comes on line it will be Europe's first EPR unit with another two similar EPRs already operating in China. A second unit was originally planned for France, but that has been canned.

    Units approaching that size in the past have had tandem shafts (Mountaineer in the US @ 1300+MW is one that comes to mind). I would be interested to see more detail of the turbo generator. It looks very smart. Do you have a link?

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  6. #845
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    Yes! It's Flamanville 3.

    It is apocalypticly over budget. Imagine the green facilities that could have been built for ~€13B (hint: 10 of these producing 3 times more juice)


    My source The steam turbine of France'''s newest nuclear reactor.

    To make matters worse, France has been hit by a mega drought.... the longest river in france dried up today

    (Edit - just saw this at midnight Europe drought affects major rivers like the Danube, the Rhine and the Po - ABC News )

    No water .. no nukes!!

    1660319612925~2.jpg

  7. #846
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    FenceFurniture is offline The prize lies beneath - hidden in full view
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodPixel View Post
    No water .. no nukes!!
    Or pumped hydro.
    Regards, FenceFurniture

    COLT DRILLS GROUP BUY
    Jan-Feb 2019 Click to send me an email

  8. #847
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    WP

    Thanks for the link and the bad drought news. I am wondering if this is the first ocassion in modern times that such European rivers have dried up.

    The link enabled me to search a little more. The turbo generator is the largest made for nukes and is the Arabelle model from GE (i didn't know this and had to look it up). It looks as though it can be ordered in a number of variations.

    This is for the more technically minded among you or the plain bloody curious.

    Arabelle steam turbine.jpg

    The steam enters the HP (High Pressure) cyclinder at the smallest blades and moves to the left. That steam is returned to the boiler (heated in this case by the nuke) and passes through the Reheat pipework. It re-enters the turbine in the IP section, again at the smallest diameter blades this time travelling to the right in the picture. This counter flow balances out the two cylinders. From the exhaust of the IP the steam passes and is shared between the two LP (you've guessed it, Low Pressure) cylinders entering in middle in both cases to balance the forces by travelling in both directions.

    I am not quite certain of my ground here but it looks as though there may be three LP cylinders. The exploded diagram above may just have the third cylinder closed in and WP's original pic seemed to show three LP cylinders. In that pic you can see the three white access platforms sitting high. I think the generator is the square box at the far end, but it doesn't look to be completed.

    The largest versions of this unit will be for the 50Hz markets (includes most of Europe) as with the 60Hz market the turbine is spining faster at 3600rpm instead of 3000rpm and this will limit the size (length)of the blades in the LP sections. Centrifugal force is very useful but also limiting.

    Just to put this turbine into perspective, it is more than three times the size of the turbines we have at Millmerran. I'm impressed. I wonder if they do version for geothermal?

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  9. #848
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    Quote Originally Posted by FenceFurniture View Post
    Or pumped hydro.
    Maybe no hydro at all!!

    Regards
    Paul

    Edit: Remember my coment that every power source today has at least one fatal flaw.
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  10. #849
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    Quote Originally Posted by FenceFurniture View Post
    Or pumped hydro.
    or food.

    Centuries-old warnings emerge from riverbed as Europe faces historic drought

    AP18235426418678.jpg

    Year 1616: The warning reads, “Wenn du mich seehst, dann weine” – “If you see me, weep.”



    To some extent, we are lucky in Australia, for drought is part of our cycle and we've learned to live with it. At least it exists, we know about it, and our systems are somewhat designed to cope - but the Europeans?

    Doomed. Their systems are designed for a nice pleasant 20° and a predictable rainfall, with 500 years of damn near perfect weather.

    No more - these systems are going to break and break HARD. It doesn't take genius to work out that the hungry mobs will stir discontent.

    Worse, bridges, pipes, houses, buildings were all designed for a certain level of humidity and heat. Foundations will crack, systems will break, reliable things will become unreliable and the costs to fix them will be terrible.

    This needs to be part of our collective thinking. What are the effects?

    Apologies for the tangent.


    BTW, I used the word SKOOKUM previously. Its an odd Chinook word I learned long ago. It essentially mean big, powerful, strong, formidable. Its an excellent word

  11. #850
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodPixel View Post
    or food.

    Centuries-old warnings emerge from riverbed as Europe faces historic drought

    AP18235426418678.jpg

    Year 1616: The warning reads, “Wenn du mich seehst, dann weine” – “If you see me, weep.”



    To some extent, we are lucky in Australia, for drought is part of our cycle and we've learned to live with it. At least it exists, we know about it, and our systems are somewhat designed to cope - but the Europeans?

    Doomed. Their systems are designed for a nice pleasant 20° and a predictable rainfall, with 500 years of damn near perfect weather.

    No more - these systems are going to break and break HARD. It doesn't take genius to work out that the hungry mobs will stir discontent.

    Worse, bridges, pipes, houses, buildings were all designed for a certain level of humidity and heat. Foundations will crack, systems will break, reliable things will become unreliable and the costs to fix them will be terrible.

    This needs to be part of our collective thinking. What are the effects?

    Apologies for the tangent.


    BTW, I used the word SKOOKUM previously. Its an odd Chinook word I learned long ago. It essentially mean big, powerful, strong, formidable. Its an excellent word
    WP

    There are steep learning curves to be had all around the world I think.

    "Skookum". I will have to remember that one. Sums up the "Arabelle" fairly well too.

    Somebody asked what heppens when a large generator trips off line (looked briefly but couldn't find it). Well, it is a good question and much depends on what percentage of the system the tripped generator represents. At best it creates a dip in the frequency, and assuming there are sufficient other generators available with capacity, the deficit is made up quickly: If not, load shedding is employed. The worst scenario is that a total blackout occurs. These have happened around the world and can be catastrophic.

    Regards
    Paul

    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  12. #851
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    Amazing timing - this is on the front page of the BBC News' website just now....

    Climate change: Drought highlights dangers for electricity supplies - BBC News

    and now with attacks on the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant, the old nukies don't look like so much fun1 any more.... (we shalt mention our old favourite Chernobyl)

    Food for thought.


    _126300048_eu_energy_generation-nc.png


    1 - safe until they... aren't.

  13. #852
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    WP

    An interesting chart. I had been looking specifically at France's power situation following your post on their latest nuke. France has potentially the highest percentage of nuclear power relative to their demand at about 70%, but all is not roses. I say "potentially" as for any number of reasons their actual load capability may be less than the name plate on their generators. In times of high demand they have to import power from other countries and having been nuclearised (is that a word) for a long time they are now at the stage where the older stations have been de-commisioned. This may be leaving them a little light on in the power generation stakes. It would be interesting to know how much de-commisioning is costing them. I believe the French government holds the majority of the ownership of their nuclear stations.

    On the issue of the Ukranian Zaphorizhzhia plant there are two concerns. Firstly that there will be a malfunction resulting in a radioactive contamination leak and secondly that the Russians have occupied the station to use it as a shield; A bit like holding a child as hostage in front of you. I had wonderedwhy the Russians had moved in as univited house guests. My natural naievety prevented me of thinking "hostage." It is difficult to think kindly about anything to do with the Russian hierachy.



    Regards
    Paul
    Bushmiller;

    "Power tends to corrupt. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely!"

  14. #853
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    Default 17-Year-Old Designed Electric Motor Without Rare-Earth Magnets

    Excuse another little tangent away from the core discussion.... BUT, this is damned interesting!


    "A 17-year-old [named Robert Sansone] created a prototype of a novel synchronous reluctance motor that has greater rotational force -- or torque -- and efficiency than existing ones," report via Smithsonian Magazine. "The prototype was made from 3-D printed plastic, copper wires and a steel rotor and tested using a variety of meters to measure power and a laser tachometer to determine the motor's rotational speed. His work earned him first prize, and $75,000 in winnings, at this year's Regeneron International Science and Engineering Fair (ISEF), the largest international high school STEM competition." From the report:



    The less sustainable permanent magnet motors use materials such as neodymium, samarium and dysprosium, which are in high demand because they're used in many different products, including headphones and earbuds, explains Heath Hofmann, a professor of electrical and computer engineering at the University of Michigan. Hofmann has worked extensively on electric vehicles, including consulting with Tesla to develop the control algorithms for its propulsion drive. [...] Synchronous reluctance motors don't use magnets. Instead, a steel rotor with air gaps cut into it aligns itself with the rotating magnetic field. Reluctance, or the magnetism of a material, is key to this process. As the rotor spins along with the rotating magnetic field, torque is produced. More torque is produced when the saliency ratio, or difference in magnetism between materials (in this case, the steel and the non-magnetic air gaps), is greater.

    Instead of using air gaps, Sansone thought he could incorporate another magnetic field into a motor. This would increase this saliency ratio and, in turn, produce more torque. His design has other components, but he can't disclose any more details because he hopes to patent the technology in the future. [...] It took several prototypes before he could test his design. [...] Sansone tested his motor for torque and efficiency, and then reconfigured it to run as a more traditional synchronous reluctance motor for comparison. He found that his novel design exhibited 39 percent greater torque and 31 percent greater efficiency at 300 revolutions per minute (RPM). At 750 RPM, it performed at 37 percent greater efficiency. He couldn't test his prototype at higher revolutions per minute because the plastic pieces would overheat -- a lesson he learned the hard way when one of the prototypes melted on his desk, he tells Top of the Class, a podcast produced by Crimson Education. In comparison, Tesla's Model S motor can reach up to 18,000 RPM, explained the company's principal motor designer Konstantinos Laskaris in a 2016 interview with Christian Ruoff of the electric vehicles magazine Charged.

    Sansone validated his results in a second experiment, in which he "isolated the theoretical principle under which the novel design creates magnetic saliency," per his project presentation. Essentially, this experiment eliminated all other variables, and confirmed that the improvements in torque and efficiency were correlated with the greater saliency ratio of his design. [...] Sansone is now working on calculations and 3-D modeling for version 16 of his motor, which he plans to build out of sturdier materials so he can test it at higher revolutions per minute. If his motor continues to perform with high speed and efficiency, he says he'll move forward with the patenting process.
    and this : ETSD014 - Investigating a Novel Electric Motor Design | ISEF


    These are 17 year olds. It BOGGLES my mind. Such genius.

  15. #854
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    Somebody asked what heppens when a large generator trips off line (looked briefly but couldn't find it). Well, it is a good question and much depends on what percentage of the system the tripped generator represents. At best it creates a dip in the frequency, and assuming there are sufficient other generators available with capacity, the deficit is made up quickly: If not, load shedding is employed. The worst scenario is that a total blackout occurs. These have happened around the world and can be catastrophic.
    Here is a well explained video discussing the 2003 blackout in the US.


  16. #855
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    Default Electricity from Solar is greater than that from coal

    This is a very, very bad sign for the future availability, supply and cost of electricity in Australia Solar briefly overtakes coal in Australia as number one source of power nationally - ABC News

    Until we have heaps and heaps of electricity storage -- remember that battery backup is really mostly about stabilizing the grid, Snowy 2 won't come on-line before 2027 (if that early), and the second link across Bass Strait will be even further in the future -- these sorts of relative costs imply that in a year or so most of Australia's electricity will be generated by super expensive gas
    regards from Sydney

    ian

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