Future of the Australian Electricity Market

**woodPixel** · 22nd August 2022, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

He offered two solutions

Only allow electric cars at home to recharge on off-peak tariffs so they do not exacerbate the problem. Even if you replaced his compulsion with encourage this would be beneficial.

His second solution was even better but required fairly sophisticated technology:

Install a "super smart"(*) electricity metering system.
At 5.00 pm he knocks off work, drives home and plugs in the car,
The super smart meter knoows that there is high demand for electricity so it draws from the car battery into the grid - the car becomes part of the solution.
Then, when the grid moves into a low demand period the super smart meter reverses the current flow and charges the battery - again the car is evening demand through the day.
If he has an early start or a very high demand day ahead, then he presses the over-ride button and the super smart meter ensures the car is fully charged by, say, 6.00 am next day.

Our Radio friend has reinvented exactly what occurs.

See Future of the Australian Electricity Market

and Tesla Energy Plan | Tesla Australia

and Australian researchers to study how Tesla car batteries can power grid | Reuters

This last article was the very first to appear on a basic search.

Its on Teslas bloody website. Radio Man didn't even bother to read the front page of the very system he was criticising.

It is obvious that a car owner with a massive battery would suck in cheap solar/wind energy during the day/off-peak and "sell" it back on-demand during peak.

Its obvious.

On compulsion, that won't be necessary. I've watched three people that have electric cars at my building. They get home and plug it in automatically. I'd wager that if their carpark at work has a charger they'd plug it in. Leaving it plugged in while parked will become as automatic as locking the car (who even thinks about it any more, just subliminally press the button as one walks away!). There will sit a million cars with massive batteries ready to pump up the network.

As an aside, I was considering upgrading the HSV to a new motor (also a '59 VW Beetle). I enquired with the Strata Managers about putting in smart chargers. They are $2000 each and there is talk to put them in a large number of the spots.

I think the future is VERY bright (assuming we don't go to war with China next month!)

edit - this just popped up (cos THEY aren't watching, are they!

) Tesla's virtual power plant had its first event helping the grid – looks like the future | Electrek

**GraemeCook** · 22nd August 2022, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by woodPixel

Our Radio friend has reinvented exactly what occurs. ...

Not quite true - he has reinvented what might occur if we lived in a perfect world - the technology might exist but its implementation has barely started.

**GraemeCook** · 22nd August 2022, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

... PS: I only listen to Radio National.

That is only one more than me; I have absolutely no idea who I was listening to or what station he works for. And less interest!

**FenceFurniture** · 22nd August 2022, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

the technology might exist but its implementation has barely started.

I suspect the same could be said of BEVs. We have, IIRC, the slowest take up of BEVs in the OECD (or something) for various reasons, which only means that the radio jock was probably harping on about a more or less non-existent problem (if there's bugger all BEVs then there's bugger all peak recharge problem).

**woodPixel** · 22nd August 2022, 04:38 PM

Here is a project in China that generates 910kw of solar in the desert.

Its obvious to see the difference its having on the soil and remediation.

We have a fair bit of sun and desert here.... 1+1?

**Bushmiller** · 22nd August 2022, 07:44 PM

WP

That is interesting. The re-vegetation is particularly impressive, but the region does not seem quite as "desert" as we are led to believe (just by the location and people, although that could have grown up since the project started. Also I noted they have underground water. However, and I know I'm sounding negative, the issue in Oz is not the space as wehave nearly as much as the Chinese, but the distances the transmission lines have to go to reach the populated areas. There are already many stand alone power grids which are that way because it is too far, too expensive and too inefficient (voltage losses) to run the wires. To go significant distance the voltage has to be higher, which means the transmission lines are a heavier gauge and the towers are correspondingly bigger. This translates into expense.

Having said all that, it looks like for them it is doing a great job providing not too much is propaganda and hyperbole.

Regards
Paul

**Bushmiller** · 22nd August 2022, 07:47 PM

The subject of EVs has come up in recent threads, not unsurprisingly and I saw this article on charging stations. It may be of interest. I know very little about them and only saw my first one a couple of months ago at Colangatta. I have to get out more:

How Much Does It Cost To Use an Electric Car Charging Station in Australia? (msn.com)

Regards
Paul

**FenceFurniture** · 23rd August 2022, 12:38 AM

I haven't read this yet, but the headline shouted that it might be appropriate to this thread.

China drought causes Yangtze to dry up, sparking shortage of hydropower | China | The Guardian

**yvan** · 23rd August 2022, 08:25 AM

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

I haven't read this yet, but the headline shouted that it might be appropriate to this thread.

China drought causes Yangtze to dry up, sparking shortage of hydropower | China | The Guardian

I heard on the ABC Radio that the shortage of power has forced some businesses to shorten their opening hours and some manufacturers to close temporarily

**woodPixel** · 24th August 2022, 01:38 AM

These serious articles are coming thick and fast now!

This one is particularly interesting as it discusses a battery tech I mentioned previously.

Have a read, then think...hmmm....trucks, buildings, suburb-level or small regional storage....

EV shipping is set to blow internal combustion engines out of the water – pv magazine USA

**woodPixel** · 24th August 2022, 02:51 AM

1661269755658.jpg

**havabeer69** · 24th August 2022, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by woodPixel

Here is a project in China that generates 910kw of solar in the desert.

Its obvious to see the difference its having on the soil and remediation.

We have a fair bit of sun and desert here.... 1+1?

with out clicking the video. is that meant to be kw or mw?

**GraemeCook** · 24th August 2022, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by havabeer69

with out clicking the video. is that meant to be kw or mw?

Don't be pedantic!

If Woody had meant to say megawatts then he would have said megawatts. That istallation is enough to power 380 radiators - just try to imagine 380 radiators massed!

**Bushmiller** · 24th August 2022, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by havabeer69

with out clicking the video. is that meant to be kw or mw?

haveabeer

The video indicates it is MW. Currently they are generating 710MW with another couple of hundred MW still going in. Adjacent to this project is another installation, the largest PV project in China, being constructed and capable, they say, of 2000MWs when complete. The area beneath the panels is re-vegetated, the locals are employed to wash the panels and they generate of course, so it seems, on the face of it, to be a win. Video presenter looks very western, but clearly fluent in Chinese. Subtitles in English and Italian.

Regards
Paul

**Bushmiller** · 24th August 2022, 05:24 PM

I have, in this thread, mentioned that battery power seems less likely for commercial transportation and that some other method of propulsion may be necessary. I have also suggested hydrogen power, which I have to say has been derided by both friends and colleagues at work. However:

Whistle blows in Germany for world's first hydrogen train fleet (msn.com)

Once the first moves towards new technology have been made, it all suddenly seems more plausible.

Hydrogen powered train in Germany.jpg

Regards
Paul

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