Thread: Greece 2012 vs today

Originally Posted by Enfield Guy

Waste in our society is an enormous problem, the one that will see our downfall, unless Evans theory comes first.

Just to go OT for a moment.

For me, this is the biggest problem, and it's becoming increasingly difficult for us to have a say in it, particularly with herd mentality. I'm thinking iPhones here with the built in "do not allow recharge after 24 months". Now if we knew about that before it was purchased, we could do something about it - and that is not buy it (those of us who do not need every release of iPhone, that is), but the problem is that for very obvious reasons, that information as kept as secret as possible until either a whistleblower or discoverer comes along. Not a case of buyer beware at all. My Nokia is coming up for 8 years old, on it's 3rd battery, and funnily enough makes excellent clear phone calls, and still feels robust. Ummm, do I need anything else from a "phone" besides clear phone calls?

Originally Posted by Enfield Guy

The marketing companies that are behind corporations like the "Big Green Shed" take choice and value away from the consumer to the point that the consumer no longer understands what value really is.

Somewhat true, but it's also up to us to sort the wheat from the chaff, and make a decent decision on what we purchase - due diligence and research. Spend the money once on decent quality and all that. This is a case of buyer beware - if it looks cheap, feels cheap, and is in fact cheap then it's probably cheap crap and will perform as such, and with a bit of research (too easy these days) one can purchase much smarter and spend less in the long run.

Ok, back OT.

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

There must be something I'm not getting here. Talking about Venezuela sounds like a reasonably temporary thing. Worldwide, and ongoing (not just a glich here and there) no electricity, ergo no water, ergo no food will surely mean the virtual end of civilisation. Ok, we've only had electricity for a hundred or so years, but because we are so utterly reliant on it..... Not even much point in trying to grow veges unless you live in a reasonable rainfall area......and you have good stocks of seed.

So how does a revolution come out of nothing left? I mean, really what you are describing is a complete holocaust, when it's simplified and the implications considered. It would no doubt involve a few nukes here and there too, just to complete the holocaust. You know "you've got stuff, we haven't, we want yours" BANG "oh bugger now it's irradiated".

FF
Thinking about the great revolutions of the past - the French, Russian, Chinese maybe even the Cuban. (I don't consider the US as a revolution rather it was an economic civil war) They began as the 1%ers lost control of their countries. Revolution then erupted spontaneously across the population usually precipitated by an event like The mutiny on the Petomkin, the storming of the Bastille, The Long March, The Bay of Pigs, before it was centralised into one group/organisation. Then those countries drift into total anarchy was avoided before total collapse. Therefore, taking Evanism's point that globally we are heading for a fall to its logical conclusion, we are due for a world wide revolution which is possible if the 1%ers allow it. So if Greece does not self destruct it's because of the 1%ers stepping in.

Evanism
I don't mean that the 1%ers are organised as such by race or religion/cult other than their common greed. They naturally look after each other because it's human nature to protect your patch by uniting with like minded people. It's the 20%ers I worry about. Who are they? They are the people who control the next greatest amount of money in the world. They run governments, corporations and the IMF and owe their positions to the 1%ers. They are ruthless.

TT

Just hearing on the ABC that the Greeks have borrowed $1billon on a 6 month short term loan through the Russians.

TT

Originally Posted by Twisted Tenon

FF
Thinking about the great revolutions of the past - the French, Russian, Chinese maybe even the Cuban. (I don't consider the US as a revolution rather it was an economic civil war) They began as the 1%ers lost control of their countries. Revolution then erupted spontaneously across the population usually precipitated by an event like The mutiny on the Petomkin, the storming of the Bastille, The Long March, The Bay of Pigs, before it was centralised into one group/organisation. Then those countries drift into total anarchy was avoided before total collapse. Therefore, taking Evanism's point that globally we are heading for a fall to its logical conclusion, we are due for a world wide revolution which is possible if the 1%ers allow it. So if Greece does not self destruct it's because of the 1%ers stepping in.

The rub is though that things spread SO much faster these days (in the last 20 years). The world has shrunk dramatically since the internet. Unless it's censored we hear about it instantly......as long as there is still electricity of course. Even if it is censored we find out about it if a Snowden comes along.

In those revolutions people had little if anything to lose, except their lives. From what I can make of Ev's comments, everybody loses everything, and overnight to boot, without any warning. It sounds like there will come a time when just one too many housing loans (or whatever) is defaulted on and the lot goes up in smoke.

So if there's nothing that anyone or group or indeed country can do about it, then I definitely can't do anything about it. I think it's time to go to the shed and polish some tools for the hell of it.

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

So if there's nothing that anyone or group or indeed country can do about it, then I definitely can't do anything about it. I think it's time to go to the shed and polish some tools for the hell of it.

Exactly. Come the revolution Comrad, that's where they will find me......

TT

This is all a bit more than I can handle in one or two sessions. Needs some time and serious thinking.

Looks like we will be pretty right if we think along the lines of the Barter System. Time to start preparing.

Gotta keep a positive outlook. Back to the shed.

Hey Evanism - thanks for the discussions.

Ok so we have a worldwide ponzi scheme going on.

Why cant it just continue forever - as long as enough people dont know about whatever problems exist and carry on behaving the way they are doing at the moment ?

Whats likely to be the tipping points that wake people up on Tuesday that enough of them/us realise the house of cards hasnt fallen down yet but we want to get out today because we think its gonna happen tomorrow ?

I guess people woke up in 2008, but what would have happened if they didnt wake up and everyone carried on doing the same thing.

Seems like a sort of prisoners dilemna scenario where it is to everyones best advantage to continue as before, but if one person disagrees and bails out he is better off than the rest.


Bill

http://www.wnd.com/2008/03/59405/

http://moneymorning.com/2015/04/09/c...atening-level/

I'm getting a brain hurt just trying to understand all this [emoji16][emoji16]

Originally Posted by steamingbill

Hey Evanism - thanks for the discussions.

Ok so we have a worldwide ponzi scheme going on.

Why cant it just continue forever - as long as enough people dont know about whatever problems exist and carry on behaving the way they are doing at the moment ?

Whats likely to be the tipping points that wake people up on Tuesday that enough of them/us realise the house of cards hasnt fallen down yet but we want to get out today because we think its gonna happen tomorrow ?

I guess people woke up in 2008, but what would have happened if they didnt wake up and everyone carried on doing the same thing.

Seems like a sort of prisoners dilemna scenario where it is to everyones best advantage to continue as before, but if one person disagrees and bails out he is better off than the rest.

I've read everyone's comments and think the same as you. What can be done? What can I do?

Glad you asked!

First, do me the favour of reading this brief article about wolves, elk and trees in a national park: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/19997826/n.../#.VSh17ldhiK0

It took PhD students and the great minds of nature to unravel the complexity of wolves, trees and elk.

Three factors. Three.

An economy in any country has tens of thousands of influences. The world has millions. Banks, trading houses and reserve banks operate models with millions of axis.... Inputs for rain, temperature, UV irradience, humidity, soil salinity, wheat/corn/oil/titanium/bacon production.... Everything.

Each thing has its own balance. Some things we can't control.... Too hot, too cold, too much rain. Floods, cyclones or last years sorghum stockpile unsold. Volcanoes. Some things we can via taxation, entrenched monopolies and political influence: GM crops, fish, potatoes, wheat....etc.

Second, I think about these things a great deal. The older I get the more I realise that the idea of managing an economy is a complete, total and impossible farce.

We can't do anything but SPECULATE as to whether wolves were the key to the returning trees.

It's obvious isn't it? Wolves ate the elk and the trees grew back. Orrrrrr, it could be that UV wasn't intense enough for seeding, or rainfalls were 0.1% higher or the elk had moved or there used to be fires but now there are none, OR OR OR.

We don't know. We model these things until we understand them, then the model breaks. We play with the knobs a bit to make it fit. It's works for a while. Then it breaks.

I'll wrap this up here. You get it.

Next i'll talk about the price of fiat money, return on capital and why we are all utterly, completely and irretrievably doomed. Utterly doomed. (yes - mass starvation, war, dog eat dog, WW3 and a return to the dark ages)

Next, money.

Let's assume, for a moment, that you KNOW that money (as we use and perceive It) is not a real thing. Imagine that it is entirely fictional. An accounting entry on a computer that says "20 billion more dollars" every 7 days.

Assume it is created out of thin air, at will, in secret, by people who are not regulated, who are unquestionable and who wont (no, can't) tell you the truth.

Assume it is not a store of value. That it in no way reflects your work, effort, saving or life's toil.

This, is money.

Scandalous? It's what we have. Watch this 30 minute video:http://youtu.be/iFDe5kUUyT0

Watch it. Do it. Take 30 minutes out of your life and listen to this video. Do it.

The reserve banks are not the government. You can't vote for them. You can NEVER find out what they do. You can never see how they opperate.

This applies to all reserve banks around the world. No exceptions.

I'll come back this arvo and explain why it will all fail (and always has.... History repeats!)....

BUT THIS TIME IT'S DIFFERENT.

k, so i watched the video, and that's all pretty easy to understand. He's got a few heavyweights at the end backing him up.

Then...... we get to the sales bit....visit this website. Gee, I wonder if they are selling those silver Pegasus rounds for a profit. (no question mark). Just a thought.....


I also note that nowhere does he (or anyone else) state what they think will be this magic solution that we can apply if we all know how rotten the system is.

Now that makes me deeply suspicious:
"Here's a really big problem that everyone in the world MUST know about if we are to avoid being wiped out in a dog eat dog situation (as Ev probably correctly describes it). In fact this is the biggest problem the world has ever faced.

So the answer to this problem is for everybody in the world to watch my video, and I'll get billions of hits, making my site very commercially viable (at least until the wipeout hits).

Oh and by the way, you can also purchase a silver round at something above the current real market value of silver. That will help keep me afloat until I can cash in on my webhits. And you better hope the bum doesn't drop out of silver."



The guy clearly has vested interests.



Hmmmm.

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

k, so i watched the video, and that's all pretty easy to understand. He's got a few heavyweights at the end backing him up.

Then...... we get to the sales bit....visit this website. Gee, I wonder if they are selling those silver Pegasus rounds for a profit. (no question mark). Just a thought.....

I also note that nowhere does he (or anyone else) state what they think will be this magic solution that we can apply if we all know how rotten the system is.

Now that makes me deeply suspicious:
"Here's a really big problem that everyone in the world MUST know about if we are to avoid being wiped out in a dog eat dog situation (as Ev probably correctly describes it). In fact this is the biggest problem the world has ever faced.

So the answer to this problem is for everybody in the world to watch my video, and I'll get billions of hits, making my site very commercially viable (at least until the wipeout hits).

Oh and by the way, you can also purchase a silver round at something above the current real market value of silver. That will help keep me afloat until I can cash in on my webhits. And you better hope the bum doesn't drop out of silver."

The guy clearly has vested interests.

Hmmmm.

I'm sorry for the sales pitch. Ignore that. Should have remembered. Its a clearly stated video (that while Ra-ra Amercian) explains the Fed Reserve system in a comprehensible way. (albeit theatrically)

Gold and Silver won't save you.

I want to state clearly... I do not know what the answer is. I sincerely don't want this to be a gold discussion, because that isn't a fix. That won't save 23 million Australians.

I do, however, believe there is no fix. Repeat. There is no "fixing" this. There is no managed process.

Every single time I sit down with a big pot of tea (enough for 4), sugar it up and hum and ahh until its either drunk or stone cold, I have never once come up with a method of fixing it. Every scenario ends in the obvious.... 90% downturns followed by 20 years or more of utter smoking ruin.

A few(!!!) people on the forum have IM'd me to ask questions and say, in general, they agree with what I say. I expected more vigorous attack!

Anyway, I am however, interested in other areas that I think about a lot on. Lessons that are learnable. Take a time, if you would, to read a bit about these subjects. They might give you hope....

-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan (that is, the effect of TAXES)
-- Gold, the gold standard and the history of money. Take time to read the creation of fiat money and Bretton Woods
-- Post WW2 rebuilding of Japan
-- The great depression (the prevailing theory, which is a contraction of the money supply)

Man, I have to go do some woodwork. This is getting me down!!!!