Thread: Katoomba Monthly Temp average set to be SMASHED!!! AGAIN!!!

Originally Posted by Beardy

Neil you forgot one other group.
Those that don’t trust the mistruths and scaremongering that constantly comes from the pro CC camp ( just like they do from the denialists) The likes of Tim Flannery have done the cause no favours.
If they were honest and upfront of the real state of play they could gain more trust and traction

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Unless there is some kind of evidence shown (here) supporting statements like that then they are just bombs thrown into the debate, and that's one very good reason why matters get heated from time to time. How about a link or two to some articles that support that point of view? That way, readers of your post can make up their own minds after reading at least some supporting evidence. My point being that I'll be damned if I believe that TF has done the cause no favours and not been honest and upfront, just because someone (who most often disagrees with my point of view anyway) says so, without evidence supporting it.

Is there a response with supporting evidence coming, or are you just going to throw the bomb into the debate and leave it? It's the second time you've had a crack at Flannery without supporting your argument.

This was the first:

Originally Posted by Beardy

I recall Tim Flannery getting a 90 million dollar grant from Gillard for his thermal rock energy that he said was very straight forward and an easy form of energy, well after the money was gone guess what, it was too hard.

See, I find it difficult to think of a more honourable Human Being than Tim Flannery. It's not that your statements upset me, I just find that without any substantiation whatsoever - just your word for it - that your statements on TF lack credibility, so I think it's time to put up....

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Is there a response with supporting evidence coming, or are you just going to throw the bomb into the debate and leave it? It's the second time you've had a crack at Flannery without supporting your argument.

This was the first:
See, I find it difficult to think of a more honourable Human Being than Tim Flannery. It's not that your statements upset me, I just find that without any substantiation whatsoever - just your word for it - that your statements on TF lack credibility, so I think it's time to put up....

Well there are the dams will never be full again statement about two years before they were breaking their banks, so we spent how much on Desal plants and their horrendous standby costs for the last 10 years and the energy required to run them V building dams
I recall the other statement of the sea level rising 25 metres and Parramatta would be the new Sydney waterfront for a start.
You don’t have to look far to find them.
Flannery is just one example, there are plenty of misleading reporting by certain media outlets that are not being honest

May I briefly hark back to the base load situation and I am going to throw out a statement for discussion.

It is that we may have completed the first stage of renewable energy and for the moment we have gone as far as we can go in economic terms. By that I mean that any additional power sources of any type will from now on make the market uneconomic. Let me suggest that during the day renewables on a good day can replace or supply around forty percent of the market. By a good day I mean that the sun is shining well, the wind is blowing well and the dams have plenty of water. If any further players enter the market they are only competing for that 40% and as a consequence will drive down the wholesale price in total.

On the face of it that makes it sound good for the consumer. Short term it is, but long term companies go out of business. Bear in mind that none of these renewable are in a position to replace that 50% base load.

What do you think is the way around this? Firstly that an economic plateau has been reached and secondly what will replace the fossil fired base load?

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

May I briefly hark back to the base load situation and I am going to throw out a statement for discussion.

It is that we may have completed the first stage of renewable energy and for the moment we have gone as far as we can go in economic terms. By that I mean that any additional power sources of any type will from now on make the market uneconomic. Let me suggest that during the day renewables on a good day can replace or supply around forty percent of the market. By a good day I mean that the sun is shining well, the wind is blowing well and the dams have plenty of water. If any further players enter the market they are only competing for that 40% and as a consequence will drive down the wholesale price in total.

On the face of it that makes it sound good for the consumer. Short term it is, but long term companies go out of business. Bear in mind that none of these renewable are in a position to replace that 50% base load.

What do you think is the way around this? Firstly that an economic plateau has been reached and secondly what will replace the fossil fired base load?

Regards
Paul

Have a look at this Paul, Innovation - Sundrop I am no expert but I have just read Tim Flannerys' latest book ( and yes I do find it a bit disgusting that such an honorable man (Australian of the year 2007), brilliant academic, great writer, thinker and leader is senselessly slandered by the ignorant) It seems that this system of concentrated solar mass is low cost, reliable and makes baseload power far more cheaply than any other system. This is probably what we should be building. Also here NoCookies | The Australian and here World-first solar tower powered tomato farm opens in Port Augusta | RenewEconomy

Originally Posted by Toymaker Len

Tim Flannerys' latest book ( and yes I do find it a bit disgusting that such an honorable man (Australian of the year 2007),

Right up there with Alan Bond (1978), Adam Goodes (2014) and Rosie Batty (2015)?

Originally Posted by Beardy

You don’t have to look far to find them.

Well in that case off you trot to find it and post. Support your argument. I'm not going to do your research for you - you'd probably only complain that I cherry picked it anyway. You need to show proof that he said the dams would never fill again, and when he said it and that it lead to the NSW Govt deciding to build the desal plant, and also show where he said sea levels would rise 25 metres. If you can't be fagged showing the evidence then you can't be taken seriously.

Originally Posted by doug3030

Right up there with Alan Bond (1978), Adam Goodes (2014) and Rosie Batty (2015)?

We all know that Bond went to gaol, albeit 17-18 years later after he committed his crimes well after he was AotY, but what have Flannery, Goodes, and Batty done to be considered in his class?

Beardy said...

Well there are the dams will never be full again statement about two years before they were breaking their banks,

That is a statement that Tim Flannery never made. He was verballed by the Andrew Bolt in an interview, where he spoke about climate change. Bolt said words along the lines of "So Tim, you're saying that the dams will never be full again...", and later claimed that Flannery had said the dams would never be full again. If you can find a direct transcript or recording by anyone other than Bolt, lets see it. The transcript of the interview was available on line, and I believe I posted a link to it some years ago, in a discussion here that was shut down.
If you're claiming Flannery said that, show us the evidence.

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

We all know that Bond went to gaol, albeit 17-18 years later after he committed his crimes well after he was AotY, but what have Flannery, Goodes, and Batty done to be considered in his class?

They appeared with him on this list. List of Australian of the Year Award recipients - Wikipedia (those who were selected for the award by the government of the day to help further their own political agendas)

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

We all know that Bond went to gaol, albeit 17-18 years later after he committed his crimes well after he was AotY, but what have Flannery, Goodes, and Batty done to be considered in his class?

They're all people that Doug doesn't like. Says more about him than them.

Originally Posted by Toymaker Len

Have a look at this Paul, Innovation - Sundrop I am no expert but I have just read Tim Flannerys' latest book ( and yes I do find it a bit disgusting that such an honorable man (Australian of the year 2007), brilliant academic, great writer, thinker and leader is senselessly slandered by the ignorant) It seems that this system of concentrated solar mass is low cost, reliable and makes baseload power far more cheaply than any other system. This is probably what we should be building. Also here NoCookies | The Australian and here World-first solar tower powered tomato farm opens in Port Augusta | RenewEconomy

Len those links seem to be more about the tomatoes than the power source, and The Australian is paywalled (I'll not give Murdoch a cent). Also, yesterday, Beardy seemed to suggest that RenewEconomy was a biased source and the Nine News was more reliable and would give a more complete account, so is RenewEconomy trustworthy in your opinion?

Originally Posted by Beardy

As soon as I saw who the publisher was I thought it best to get the whole story
Downer EDI profit falls 35pc on '''risky''' construction

Originally Posted by doug3030

They appeared with him on this list. List of Australian of the Year Award recipients - Wikipedia (those who were selected for the award by the government of the day to help further their own political agendas)

I can't follow that at all. You've linked to a list of every AotY since 1960, which also includes David Morrison, Peter Cosgrove, a host of sportspeople, musicians, religious figures etc. I don't understand why you would single out Goodes and Batty to compare them with Bond. The implication (to me anyway) is that Goodes and Batty have done something to disgrace themselves, as Bond did. Obviously you must think that Morrison and Cosgrove et al are right up their with Bond as well.

Originally Posted by AlexS

They're all people that Doug doesn't like. Says more about him than them.

Well that's a rather rash assumption, the making of which says more about you than it does about me.

Putting aside Bond's business achievements (which most would assume were dodgy right from the start in light of subsequent evidence) I really enjoyed watching his America's up challenges which did a hell of a lot for national pride and Australia's standing on the world stage. Do I dislike him? NO. Was he worthy of an Australian Of the year award once all the facts were known? doubtful.

Adam Goodes is/was a great footballer. I am not an AFL fan but living in Victoria where AFL is a religion, you can't help but notice. He was awarded AOY for his work against racial discrimination. But nobody who boo-ed him on the field did it because of his race; it was because of his behavior. He brought it all on himself. If you doubt this, lets look at another aboriginal footballer,albeit in a different code - Jonathan Thurston. If Goodes was boo-ed because of his race, why did nobody boo JT? Probably because he didn't act like a dick. He made no issue of race so neither did anyone else. He was also very active and influential in the community and did a lot of good for a lot of other people. Goodes' primary interest was in himself. Do I dislike him? NO. There is a lot about him to admire. Was he worthy of an Australian of the year award? Compared to other potential candidates, I think not.

Rosie Batty went thorough a terrible experience and I admire her for the way she channeled the energy of that experience into her advocacy against family violence is inspirational. However, at the time of the awarding of AOY, had she done enough? Most recipients of the award have worked hard over several years before being noticed and awarded, whereas Rosie was given the award by Tony Abbot to enable her to go out and do her work with a more substantial platform to support her. It was a win-win,with Rosie getting a raised profile and helped Abbot to shake off the still lingering affects of the mysogony slur which Gillard so successfully used to discredit him. I do not dislike Rosie Batty, I admire her. She had not done enough to have earned the award whenit was presented and probably still has not made up the difference, but she has done a lot more than most would have done in the same circumstances.

The point I was making was that AOY awards are not necessarily a guarantee that they have sufficient achievements to justify it. Like other decisions made by politicians, they are made to get the most political mileage possible. If you have a bit of time to kill go through the list of any high-profile awards administered by the state or federal government and then think about who the leaders were at the time and what the agendas of the day were then look at the award recipients.

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

A link to AEMO for those of you who are interested in the prices and demands for each state. It is right up to date all the time.

Thanks, Paul

Not much sun here yet and no wind this morning... SA is paying over $300 MW spot price.... Yikes!

And, Tas has turned on the tap to keep the Vics going.

Very interesting.

Originally Posted by doug3030

AOY awards are not necessarily a guarantee that they have sufficient achievements to justify it. Like other decisions made by politicians, they are made to get the most political mileage possible.

Well that's all you had to say in the very first place, and your meaning would have been quite clear, instead of obfuscated, and frankly, misleading.