Thread: Katoomba Monthly Temp average set to be SMASHED!!! AGAIN!!!

and here is one to completely bugger up my arguments!

Traces of ancient rainforest in Antarctica point to a warmer prehistoric world

Not sure which arguments you mean?

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Not sure which arguments you mean?

I'm just guessing here but it might be this bit

Lead author Dr. Johann Klages, from the Alfred Wegener Institute Helmholtz Centre for Polar and Marine Research, said: "Before our study, the general assumption was that the global carbon dioxide concentration in the Cretaceous was roughly 1000 ppm. But in our model-based experiments, it took concentration levels of 1120 to 1680 ppm to reach the average temperatures back then in the Antarctic."

the possibility that the atmospnere 90 million years ago - pre industrialisation - might have been well over 1000ppm and we are currently not even half of that level today and everyone is saying ity is unprecedented.

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

... it's not good.

From Nasa this morning:
Greenland, Antarctica Melting Six Times Faster Than in the 1990s – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet

Those pesky coronaviruses are melting the ice !

Originally Posted by doug3030

...the possibility that the atmospnere 90 million years ago - pre industrialisation - might have been well over 1000ppm and we are currently not even half of that level today and everyone is saying ity is unprecedented.

Oh dear - I'm not sure where to even begin. This study has no relevance to contemporary climate change debate. The Cretaceous is more than just a LITTLE bit "pre" in the context of industrialisation. Precedent doesn't even enter into it - the periods are just not comparable.

During the Cretaceous, the continents were in very different positions than they are today. Sections of the supercontinent Pangaea were drifting apart. The Tethys Ocean still separated the northern Laurasia continent from southern Gondwana. The North and South Atlantic were still closed, although the Central Atlantic had begun to open up in the late Jurassic. By the middle of the period, ocean levels were much higher; most of the landmass we are familiar with was underwater. The Cretaceous Thermal Maximum is estimated to have had equatorial sea temperatures about 10C higher than today. It would NOT have been conducive to humanity. But why stop there with our "precedent"?? Perhaps we should include the Hadeon eon - the temperatures there were likely a balmy 200C - 300C. Or maybe that's too warm? Well, lets fast forward to one of the Proterozoic glacial periods - sea ice from the poles to the equator. Somewhat problematic for us humans.

The point is you can't look back at these geologic periods and try to use them for some sort of "normalcy" comparison to what we all are (or should be) concerned with today. Our concerns are ensuring an acceptable environment for us and our descendants to live in and thrive.

But I am reminded of the words of the late, the great and the inimitable George Carlin:

“We’re so self-important. Everybody’s going to save something now. “Save the trees, save the bees, save the whales, save those snails.” And the greatest arrogance of all: save the planet. Save the planet, we don’t even know how to take care of ourselves yet. I’m tired of this sh! t. ... The planet has been through a lot worse than us. Been through earthquakes, volcanoes, plate tectonics, continental drift, solar flares, sun spots, magnetic storms, the magnetic reversal of the poles … hundreds of thousands of years of bombardment by comets and asteroids and meteors, worldwide floods, tidal waves, worldwide fires, erosion, cosmic rays, recurring ice ages … And we think some plastic bags and some aluminum cans are going to make a difference? The planet isn’t going anywhere. WE are! We’re going away. Pack your sh! t, folks. We’re going away. And we won’t leave much of a trace, either. Maybe a little Styrofoam … The planet’ll be here and we’ll be long gone. Just another failed mutation. Just another closed-end biological mistake. An evolutionary cul-de-sac. The planet’ll shake us off like a bad case of fleas..."

A very quick update for the way wholesale electricity prices are trending. This is from Saturday night (two nights ago):

Spot Price 0345Hrs. 5 April 2020.PNG

The prices were similar to this for most of the night. At times they were worse with negative figures. The reason for this is threefold. Firstly Autumn (and Spring) are periods of low demand. Generally there is reduced usage of air conditioners as neither heating nor cooling is required. Secondly, it is the weekend and on a Saturday night much of industry is shut down (Sunday night was better, from a generator's point of view, as industry is beginning to start up again ready for the week). Lastly, the Covid-19 restrictions are having some effect on demand.

Power generation is regarded as an essential industry so you should be assured that we are there for you to keep the beer fridges running.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Power generation is regarded as an essential industry so you should be assured that we are there for you to keep the beer fridges running.

oh Paul

I remember your earlier post about lamenting the absence of a beer fridge

Originally Posted by ian

oh Paul

I remember your earlier post about lamenting the absence of a beer fridge

Very true Ian

No dedicated beer fridge. It has to share with veg.....tables.

Regards
Paul

In another thread on Covid-19 some participants in those discussions have pointed to how some with sympathies for policies that favour better medical outcomes over preserving the economy are likely to be also those with 'alarmist views' on climate change. They are partly right, as is the observation that many conservatives are ideologically inclined to favour and preserve the economy as it currently is against any changes that they perceive will weaken it.

The following short (8mins) podcast throws some light on this divide in the context of out discussions here on climate change.

Moving beyond 'us' and 'them' - Ockham's Razor - ABC Radio National

It is therefore not surprising that the ideology bundling referred to in the podcast has also surfaced in the Covid-19 discussions.

The far right has been steam rolled worldwide (by progressive and conservative leaders alike) with the preservation of health being given a priority over the preservation wealth... "Whatever it takes!"

One may think that there has been a fundamental shift with conservative governments taking advice from scientists and the medical fraternity on what has to be done to solve the Covid-19 threat and that this might flow over into accepting advice from scientist on climate change. However, when the pandemic subsides I expect there will be an even more tenacious pushback from the far right against policies that mitigate against climate change. It is already there, but currently drowned out by the greater concern over the pandemic.

The above podcast and the work of Rebecca Huntley (referred to in a much earlier post from me) provide some insights into how to navigate this.

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Power generation is regarded as an essential industry so you should be assured that we are there for you to keep the beer fridges running.

And, very much appreciated Paul.

No electricity, no ventilators!

Originally Posted by NeilS

In another thread on Covid-19

What other thread?

Originally Posted by NeilS

However, when the pandemic subsides I expect there will be an even more tenacious pushback from the far right against policies that mitigate against climate change. It is already there, but currently drowned out by the greater concern over the pandemic.

I think that will be exactly right Neil. The cry will be "The economy is already buggered for decades to come - and you want to do more damage to it?"

Double post

Originally Posted by fencefurniture

Originally Posted by NeilS

however, when the pandemic subsides i expect there will be an even more tenacious pushback from the far right against policies that mitigate against climate change. It is already there, but currently drowned out by the greater concern over the pandemic.

i think that will be exactly right neil. The cry will be "the economy is already buggered for decades to come - and you want to do more damage to it?"

I suspect the strategists in the fossil fuel industry are already working on spinning this to their advantage. It will be things like "we need more coal mines to get people back into jobs, so damn the regulations & just approve them" and "We need to export more fossil fuel to kick start the economy out of hibernation" . I would be surprised if the lobbyists are not already hard at work bending the ears of the politicians.

And just wait until the likes of the Alan Jones get on the bandwagon. (Who, on another note, was making dangerous assertions about the Covid-19 response, saying it was just hysteria - while hypocritically doing so while holed up & isolated in Fortress Fitzroy Falls)