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  1. #76
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    Right you are then - satellite spotting it is then!

    Paul, that is an excellent takedown by friendlyjordie. I've seen him in action ripping into Clive Palmer because CP wanted to sue him because Jordie called him Fatty McF*ckhead. It can be found on YouTube.
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  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    In fact I would recommend that if you are a Morrison fan you do not open the link.
    That should read
    "if you are the Morrison fan"
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  3. #78
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    In the first instance, and perhaps even before we develop strategies to combat the effects of climate change, we may need some of those Boeing 747 water bombers.

    747 Supertanker - Wikipedia

    One issue I can see for Australia is the question of where they can take off and land. For example the Millmerran International airport is not rated at anything larger than a twin engine turbo prop. I guess that most of the fires are within 300km of the coast and major airports. There may also be better access to water supplies too. I will look forward to seeing them water bomb in our region (assuming a fire of course) at less than 500m. About three large rainwater tanks in one trip (74000L)

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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by FenceFurniture View Post
    Right you are then - satellite spotting it is then!
    Does Australia have access/control of a geostationary, IR capable satellite with sensors sensitive enough to pinpoint small areas over all of Australia? We seem to get hotspot data from some of NASA's weather satellites. I should state that I have not done any research and get all my information from 'some bloke on facebook'.
    Those were the droids I was looking for.
    "just because I donít need the lathe doesnít mean the beer isnít cold" - Grand Master Flett

  5. #80
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    A mix of aircraft is the key of course. At 74000 litres it would take about 8 Elvis trips (9500 litres) to get the same volume of water, but they are two different things. A massive dump from whatever safe altitude a Jumbo can do up here would take at least 60 minutes from Mascot (return time) plus refill time plus delays due to it being an International Airport. I do not know if a Jumbo can land at Richmond Air Base....wait a sec....yes they can, so that would be a much better solution, but I don't know how long it takes to get the altitude needed, nor at what safe altitude above the escarpment it would need.

    On this map you can see Mascot Airport at the extreme lower right, Richmond in the upper middle, and Echo Point on the left. Richmond is just 45kms from the fire epicentre at that time.

    Richmond.jpg


    Elvis, OTH, can deliver its 9500 litres every 6 minutes in this particular location (difficult flying around the Blue Mountains escarpments too - they can be 500m high and at 90į), and with pretty good low altitude precision. Before Xmas there was massive 'copter activity here at the Ruined Castle fire (just 3kms off Echo Point). The refill lake is just 1km from my house, and so the round trip is about 13kms. I observed both ends of the cycle more times than I can count. I never did get to see Elvis (or whichever one is "730") refilling but I could hear it and see it rising up from my front yard. Observing it dropping down into the valley Echo Point was amazing. You don't realise just how far down it goes from the lookout, but the copter became tiny. Then it would come up and fly right past where I was standing near Echoes Guesthouse on the edge of the escarpment. It was about 40-50 metres away, and you can then see it is a very substantial copter! Bloody thing dripped water on the car once!

    Ruined Castle is the blue diamond at the bottom, refill lake is at the top and I'm just above the A32 sign. Blue diamond to blue lake is 6.6kms

    Ruined Castle.JPG

    Where I see a Jumbo being useful is to attack a cliff fire like this. That was up near Blackheath I believe - I didn't see that particular one but I did see the same thing shooting up Narrowneck Peninsula from the Ruined Castle fire in mid December. It's not quite vertical there - probably about 75-80į. Elvis would be a bit useless in that situation.
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  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCArcher View Post
    Does Australia have access/control of a geostationary, IR capable satellite with sensors sensitive enough to pinpoint small areas over all of Australia?
    Probably not and I doubt they've even thought of it.
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  7. #82
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    Markkr, how's the grass at your place? (he has the greenest thickest grass I've ever seen, on an ex-dairy farm, so I'm interested to see what drought effect there is)
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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushmiller View Post
    In the first instance, and perhaps even before we develop strategies to combat the effects of climate change, we may need some of those Boeing 747 water bombers.

    747 Supertanker - Wikipedia

    One issue I can see for Australia is the question of where they can take off and land. For example the Millmerran International airport is not rated at anything larger than a twin engine turbo prop. I guess that most of the fires are within 300km of the coast and major airports. There may also be better access to water supplies too. I will look forward to seeing them water bomb in our region (assuming a fire of course) at less than 500m. About three large rainwater tanks in one trip (74000L)

    Regards
    Paul
    Paul, I can assure you, from first hand experience, those 747's are the best thing since sliced bread. I lost count on how many loads they dropped over our area on S#*t Saturday but it was dozens. There is absolutely no comparison between the planes and the choppers. Loaded with pink retardant they are the most decisive thing against fire we have at our disposal. Many houses were saved only by the amount of water that could be dumped at a time. The fire was so intense, lesser amounts were not reaching the ground due to the heat and evaporation. If a method can be devised to fast fill these planes we will be much the better for it. Unfortunately, our Premier has decided we dont need any more planes. Can someone please tell me why we have politicians.

  9. #84
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    Perhaps this belongs in the Electricity thread, but this thread is active, and it's all related.
    Monash Uni seems to have made a very exciting battery breakthrough.
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  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustynail View Post
    Paul, I can assure you, from first hand experience, those 747's are the best thing since sliced bread. I lost count on how many loads they dropped over our area on S#*t Saturday but it was dozens. There is absolutely no comparison between the planes and the choppers. Loaded with pink retardant they are the most decisive thing against fire we have at our disposal. Many houses were saved only by the amount of water that could be dumped at a time. The fire was so intense, lesser amounts were not reaching the ground due to the heat and evaporation. If a method can be devised to fast fill these planes we will be much the better for it. Unfortunately, our Premier has decided we dont need any more planes. Can someone please tell me why we have politicians.
    G'day Ken, I've been wondering how you fared. Yes, that illustrates exactly what I meant by the two different approaches being needed - nothing like a big dump. Where were they taking off and landing from? Richmond? That's only 20kms from you, as the Jumbo flies...
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  11. #86
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    Brown Brett, utterly brown.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by NCArcher View Post
    Does Australia have access/control of a geostationary, IR capable satellite with sensors sensitive enough to pinpoint small areas over all of Australia? We seem to get hotspot data from some of NASA's weather satellites. I should state that I have not done any research and get all my information from 'some bloke on facebook'.
    I don’t know but I know South Australia monitor and open and close their outback roads due to inclement weather via satellite observations

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    Quote Originally Posted by rustynail View Post
    Can someone please tell me why we have politicians.
    Without them to blame, we'd have to blame ourselves....

  14. #89
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    Paradoxically, about the last thing we need RIGHT now is heavy rain.
    The risk of heavy rain triggering catastrophic flooding is just too great.


    From Canada we've been following the situation back home.
    What we need is a prolonged period of gentle steady rain. Something like 600 to 900 mm spread over 3 to 4 months.
    All heavy rain will do is run right off the current bone dry ground.

    Unfortunately, I expect what we will get is heavy rain that runs off more than it soaks in ...
    regards from Canada

    ian

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by FenceFurniture View Post
    G'day Ken, I've been wondering how you fared. Yes, that illustrates exactly what I meant by the two different approaches being needed - nothing like a big dump. Where were they taking off and landing from? Richmond? That's only 20kms from you, as the Jumbo flies...
    G'Day Bret, Yes they are stationed at and flying out of Richmond RAAF base. A good location for them as it is pretty central for the rest of the State. They were a Godsend for Bilpin, I dont think there would have been much of the district left without them. IMHO we need enough of these planes to allow for the down time in refilling so when one leaves another takes it's place. So much of our current fire defense is only penury. If we are going to prevent something like this happening again there are going to have to be many changes made. I think the 747's was the best idea so far.

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