Thread: Potential Good News On the COVID Front

Be careful about what you believe regarding this or that vaccine from Russia. We had vaccines for covid here less than two weeks after there was official recognition. In my city health system (the one that developed the polio vaccine), they already had a sars sugar needle (sort of like velcro - the tips of the vaccine patch are absorbed in the skin) vaccine that took about two weeks to adapt into a covid vaccine making viable antibodies in mice.

What's less certain is everything else that goes along with the vaccine then. no clue if they ever got human trials, but there is a huge number of vaccines here that make antibodies for covid. It's not a lack of vaccines, it's the follow-up checking that counts:
* does the vaccine make an avenue for another virus easier (for example, some types of flu vaccines have a statistically significant increase in respiratory infections, possibly as much as 4 times. If you are susceptible to respiratory infections, then the vaccine for the flu can be worse for you than no vaccine).
* will the effect be lasting
* will mutation of the virus make it so that any lasting effect isn't useful against mutating strains?

It's easy for china or russia to trot out vaccines and boast about them and give an official message ignoring side effects or complications. If there was a universal viable vaccine without any risk, we'd have it already because someone would be getting wealthy off of it without fear of being sued out of business later if things went sideways with the vaccines.

You can find all kinds of exceptions to the "we're human" thing that aren't really exceptions. Corruption occurs everywhere. It's just a matter of the scale of it. It may be small at the local level like you're describing, but it's human nature. As things shape up here, it doesn't really appear that there's going to be any magic vaccine that really moves the needle any time soon, Russian or otherwise. If there is, then their covid cases will cease, but that hasn't happened. Human nature will continue to be observed.

Fair chance that the societies shutting down completely will just get to experience this later, after lecturing everyone about irresponsibility prior. There is a template to view, though - toilet paper supply, then meat at the super market (people will buy and hoard meet - creating a temporary supply issue), etc. Life will go on after that for most. You can be positive in the meantime and continue to move on, or get stuck in the mud about reality and point fingers. The latter is politics - verisimilitude.

We owe it to ourselves and others to point the needle toward the good, even if all you can scrape up is a little at a time. Turn off the media, go about your business, forget about who is at fault and work within the local environment reasonably - the panic is people ignoring what's going on in their own walls and presuming problems outside of them are more important. It's a cognitive trap that leads to no good.

delete

Originally Posted by elanjacobs

1) outright garbage, you're going to go on a rant about them

The news about the Russian vaccine are for real and came from the Russian side.
It doesn't look like a friendly nor a polite language towards people you don't know so from on I'm not going to waste more time with you.

Originally Posted by allfix

The news about the Russian vaccine are for real and came from the Russian side.

Yeah...and no one else on the planet currently believes them.

I make no apologies for what I said or how I said it, I believe it was completely fair. If you're going to make big claims, expect them to be fact checked. If you can't handle that, maybe don't start a discussion on a controversial topic.

D.W. - it seems worth mentioning that in terms of comparisons to the flu - the numbers are with (perhaps belated and undercooked) but fairly extreme efforts made to contain the virus that are not done each year with the flu. It also kicked off in the US in earnest well after winter.

It obviously has not died down in the summer. Whether or not it goes up in the winter, it is still only about 6 months into the year for the US.

Chris

Originally Posted by elanjacobs

I make no apologies for what I said or how I said it, I believe it was completely fair. If you're going to make big claims, expect them to be fact checked. If you can't handle that, maybe don't start a discussion on a controversial topic.

I don't pretend apologies nor I need any especially from you but you keep on being unfriendly and rude instead of just keeping shut.

This vaccine development has became a political fight between western and eastern countries so that is why I prefer to search information from both sides.
This is a world pandemic and all counties should set aside their political rivalries and goals and work together but from what I understand the outcome of the vaccine is one of the biggest business opportunities we have ever seen in decades so that is why there is a lot of political talking.
I even found news about Russia offering and asking America to work together in the development of the vaccine but the offer was rejected, why?

"On August 11, Russia became the first country in the world to register a coronavirus vaccine named Sputnik V"
Most countries interested in Russia’s coronavirus vaccine despite information war - fund - Russia - TASS

Yes people are interested in learning about the Russian vaccine, but Russia isn't releasing any data, they just expect people to trust them. Given their history of distributing misinformation, it's quite understandable that no one does.

I'd take any article published by Russian state media with a healthy dose of salt for the same reason

Originally Posted by woodPixel

Concerns me that people don't take this seriously.

5% of people who catch it die.

You can catch it more than once...and again and again and again.

I'm beginning to feel there is a certain percentage of the population that doesn't care about the impact they have on others.

Perhaps it is time to take sterner measures. Focus their minds on the implications....


One dude in Melbourne has been fined 24 times for breaching restrictions.

How is this not treason?

and 30 % of the aged or frail or people with underlying health problems will also die.

When will they ever learn that it really is a matter of life and death until a vaccine is widely available.

Peter.

Originally Posted by allfix

The problem is that everything is always run but greed and personal interests and gains, we are experiencing a world pandemic situation while our politicians keep on profiting at our expenses, how could I see a good future?

I presume you are wearing the famous Ubeaut Foily cap.

Peter.

I've been talking about this since December.... there has not been, to my knowledge or research, a vaccine against ANY coronavirus, ever.

Why does the media and politicians STILL talk about it as if its some magic bullet? This is not a dollars-solves-everything problem....

A very quick DDG confirms the fact there IS NO coronavirus-family vaccine. Given that a huge number of people die every year of the cold and flu is absolute proof of this.

MERS and SARS - super lethal. Same virus. ZERO VACCINE.



Pinning our hopes on a magic solution is pure fantasy. The illusion we are being sold is vapourware. It is hope.

e.g. Will There Be a Coronavirus Vaccine? Maybe Not



We need to prepare ourselves for a big change in the way we act as a society, or else 5% of us might pull the pin with concerning regularity.

Originally Posted by woodPixel

I've been talking about this since December.... there has not been, to my knowledge or research, a vaccine against ANY coronavirus, ever.

Why does the media and politicians STILL talk about it as if its some magic bullet? This is not a dollars-solves-everything problem....

A very quick DDG confirms the fact there IS NO coronavirus-family vaccine. Given that a huge number of people die every year of the cold and flu is absolute proof of this.

MERS and SARS - super lethal. Same virus. ZERO VACCINE.



Pinning our hopes on a magic solution is pure fantasy. The illusion we are being sold is vapourware. It is hope.

e.g. Will There Be a Coronavirus Vaccine? Maybe Not



We need to prepare ourselves for a big change in the way we act as a society, or else 5% of us might pull the pin with concerning regularity.

WP

I think the polies are clutching at straws and the media are struggling to sell copy. All we can say for the moment is there is a deal of activity to find some solution, but there are no slam dunks here. We are merely bouncing the ball in the centre of the court hoping an opportunity will present. I was looking up why MERS and SARS stopped. It seems that it was social distancing and public health and eventually it went away. I think it may be equally hopeful to think the same thing will happen with Covid-19.

Sorry to be pessimistic, but I do think it is more pragmatic to be realistic and recognise that for the moment the outcome is an unknown quantity. This is as global deaths have exceeded 846,000 ( compared to Sars and Mers at 812 and 858).

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

This is as global deaths have exceeded 846,000 ( compared to Sars and Mers at 812 and 858).

I believe that everyday influenza deaths toll added to road deaths caused by drug and alcohol abuse, deaths and diseases caused by the consumption of tobacco, alcohol and prescribed medicinal is far higher than what we are experiencing right now.
And I'm not an expert nor a Doctor but I do believe that the majority of deaths by Corona virus are from aged or fragile people (the majority).
What I can't understand is why there is an emergency now (rightfully) and we're being punished with strong restrictions including a curfew like during a war time and nothing was done before for the above cited diseases?

Originally Posted by allfix

I believe that everyday influenza deaths toll added to road deaths caused by drug and alcohol abuse, deaths and diseases caused by the consumption of tobacco, alcohol and prescribed medicinal is far higher than what we are experiencing right now.
And I'm not an expert nor a Doctor but I do believe that the majority of deaths by Corona virus are from aged or fragile people (the majority).
What I can't understand is why there is an emergency now (rightfully) and we're being punished with strong restrictions including a curfew like during a war time and nothing was done before for the above cited diseases?

Allfix

You have raised relevant points.

Part of the problem is that Covid-19 is in addition to those other causes of death, not instead of. Also with distancing etc. etc. it is possible to curtail the outbreak. We are seeing that now in Victoria: Unfortunately the death toll lags the outbreak of cases and right now we see the effect of those early days (of the second wave). These too will diminish but could arguably take a couple of weeks and that assumes no further escalation of cases. I think there are less than 100 per day now, but I have not really been counting other than to hear there are improvements.

There is little we can do regarding the other causes of death. People continue to die on the roads, drug users overdose and alcoholics eventually run out of liver capacity. It is not really relevant to compare to such other life threatening diseases. Influenza is interesting in that deaths from that I believe are down: Social distancing I think is responsible.

If people were responsible, and I am not for one moment suggesting you are not a responsible person, we would not need the curfews and the lockdowns. Unfortunately that is not the case as we have seen with people attempting to cross the borders illegally and others leaving their homes for no good reason. This is why there are curfews. I am sure there are no good reasons for any politician implementing such draconian measures unncessarily. It is completely against their own interests.

I have to say I find it reprehensible that the federal government comes down hard on the labour states (Victoria & WA) when the area greatest hit, as you have identified, the elderly and the fragile, are in fact the commonwealth responsibility. I don't think you have to have a Phd in philosophy to see an anomaly there. To my mind the political parties should be bi-partisan in these times. Clearly some politicians are putting their own futures above the well being of the populace. I don't think that Daniel Andrews is one of those. My extended viewpoint of that, and I know this will seem harsh, a little fanciful and idealistic is that if you take public office you should fall on your sword for the greater good. If that is unpalatable, don't put up your hand in the first place. Too many are there for their ego.

Whew! I hadn't intended to get into that.

Regards
Paul