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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ian View Post
    Hi Brett
    so to go past the overtaking car driver needs to change lanes -- sounds perfectly reasonable to me ...
    But what if there is no lane to change in to?
    In my case today it was a single lane road with a median strip and the nearest legal (by ths law) overtaking spot was where the road went two lane for a roundabout almost a k up the road.

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by smidsy View Post
    The fact is that agressive cyclists are just as much to blame as cars - how often do you see a line of cars fight their past a cyclist only to come to a red light and have the cyclist ride up the gutter to the front of the que so the cars have to do it all over again.
    The reason cyclists do this is because the front of the intersection is the safest place to be. Other vehicles can see us and the delay to drivers in real time is minimal. There are even bike bays at many intersections at the front of the line where cyclists are supposed to stop and wait for the lights to change.

    Quote Originally Posted by smidsy View Post
    How often do you see a cyclist get to a red light, hop off and cross with the pedestrians and then get on again.
    Less than 8%, that's the answer to your question. Statistically less than 8% of cyclists run red lights. I can provide the documentation but I doubt you're interested in me supporting my statement with footnotes

    Quote Originally Posted by smidsy View Post
    That silly cow in Melbourne the other week who rode up the side of a cab (no bike lane) and tried to blame the passenger when she got a face full of door - good on the passenger for refusing to give ID.
    That silly cow in Melbourne was riding in a safe and legal manner. The cab was stopped in traffic without an indicator on and showing no signs that the passengers were going to disembark. The attitude of the passengers was disgraceful and I'm pretty sure at least one has been charged now for leaving the scene of an accident. The main perpetrator is on record as being very sorry about the incident now and embarrassed by his attitude.

    Quote Originally Posted by smidsy View Post
    Those two clowns today that forced me to pass close because they were riding side by side (two guys would be different but this was a guy and a girl and if I was the guy I'd be riding single file cos she had an ass worth looking at for an hour or three)
    Those two clowns today didn't force you to pass close, you made a conscious decision to pass in an unsafe manner. Perhaps he was gay, that seems to be the standard assumption made about people wearing lycra

    Quote Originally Posted by smidsy View Post
    Do I believe I own the road, no, but it pisses me of the amount of taxes and fees I pay to use the roads yet I am supposed to give way to cyclist who pay nothing when they are riding - and how many millions do councils spend on bike paths.
    You don't pay any taxes or fees to use the roads. Roads are paid for out of general revenue, if you pay taxes you pay for roads.

    Quote Originally Posted by smidsy View Post
    I ride from time to time (not as often as I should) and when I do I treat cars bikes and everything else motorised with the deference they deserve - see the attached pic of Jeremy Clarksons riding shirt.
    When I ride, I don't treat drivers with deference. I treat them as though they are going to try and kill me. If the safest place for me to be on a section of road is right in the middle and a driver off for a hundred metres or so, that's exactly where I will be. It may you off but you're going to have to make a conscious decision to hit me to get past and if I'm out there I guarantee there's a reason for it. I do this because of the attitude of the very very very few drivers who have the attitude of Clarkson.

    Quote Originally Posted by smidsy View Post
    Cyclists want equality yet they pay no fees and push bikes have no identification so cyclists can effectively do what they want because they can't be caught unless there's a cop on the spot.
    You will find that cyclists are so sick of this merry go round most would happily pay to register their bikes just to shut people up. It won't fix anything, it won't do anything. This one is a waste of time and money.

    Quote Originally Posted by smidsy View Post
    Cyclist want equality, fine lets start with a few hundred bucks for rego each year, another few hundred for competency assessment and a few more bucks for a yearly roadworthy for those states that do it.
    Registration is calculated on the weight of the vehicle. My vehicle weighs 8kg, so my rego works out to be about $2. Put that against the cost of administering the registration and like every government which has ever looked at it you will realise it's not viable.

    This isn't an argument between drivers and riders, it's between the law and those who disagree with it.
    It's only a mistake if you don't learn from it.

  4. #18
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    The riding of two cyclists two a breast has been the proper and legal way in Victoria since 1958 that I know about for that was what we were taught in school and also when I got my licence. A mate and me used to cycle to school everyday that way and cars gave way without problems and no need for cameras as in those days drivers were better educated and more responsible then now.

    Also that so called "silly cow in Melbourne the other week" was cycling in an approved and marked cycling lane so she was obeying the road rules as applying in Melbourne. Btw a rather insulting way to describe a law abiding citizen.

    So if you don't like the road laws talk to your local member of parliament and try to get the law changed or stay of the roads and use public transport.

    Peter.

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ian View Post
    Hi Brett

    Have another look, I make it
    about 0.5 to 1m from the left edge of the lane
    NO more than 1.5m to the 2nd cyclist
    1m clearance
    Total somewhere between 3 and 3.5 metres


    so to go past the overtaking car driver needs to change lanes -- sounds perfectly reasonable to me ...
    Yeah, you're right on that Ian - I misread it. But there's also the width of the cycles/cyclists themselves (another metre each). That also supposes that there is another lane to change into. If so, then absolutely no problem - just a matter of courteous driving.

    The point that smidsy originally made was that it was a single lane road.
    Regards, FenceFurniture

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  6. #20
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    Some years back I decided to take a break from the timber industry and took a job driving tour coaches. Both here on the mainland and Tasmania, followed by a couple of seasons in Europe. On one occcassion, coming down the Midlands Hwy in Tassie, I came over a rise, on a dead straight section of road, at 100klm per hour to find a cyclist ( read temporary citizen) coasting down the road, resting after what was only a slight incline but for a fair distance. As I went past, he was blown off the road and into a paddock! Now Evanism would probably sue for that.
    On other occasions, I had managed to get past cyclists without causing them too much distress, only to have the silly buggers, at a red light, pull up on the inside of the coach, in the gutter, under or in front of the rear view mirror, bolt out in front as soon as the lights changed, so you had to go through the whole process again.
    What mind set encourages these idiots is totally lost on me. Its dangerous, not only to themselves, but everyone else on the road is put at risk while they cheat death. I live on one of the most dangerous roads in Australia. There are numerous fatalities every year and these idiots think it is one of the greatest rides in the country! Well, if they have that much/little self respect or sense of self preservation, there doesnt seem to be too much hope of them seeing reason.
    This one was the last straw.....Travelling from Lithgow towards Bilpin, middle of winter, heavy sleet, I come across a Temporary Citizen lying curled up in the gutter with his bike lying beside him. I stop, and walk back to him. He is dressed in lycra or whatever they call the crap, is blue and shaking like a dog passing razor blades. I had the trailer on, so flung the bike in and gave him a lift to Richmond railway station. And told the silly [email protected]#*k exactly what I thought of him and his mates and what they should do with their bikes. My sentiment has not changed.
    As for being sued? Tough talk, but there are far less risky ways of making money.

  7. #21
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    I wouldn't worry about it too much. It is only a matter of time before the Darwin effect solves the problem.
    Rich

    When SWMBO said "I won't cook in metric."
    The metric system died in the US.

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ian View Post
    so to go past the overtaking car driver needs to change lanes -- sounds perfectly reasonable to me ...
    Quote Originally Posted by smidsy View Post
    But what if there is no lane to change in to?
    In my case today it was a single lane road with a median strip and the nearest legal (by ths law) overtaking spot was where the road went two lane for a roundabout almost a k up the road.
    so if you had been stuck for a km or more behind a learner doing 40 or 50 km/h below the speed limit it would be OK to force them off the bitumen so you could pass?
    ditto if the much slower vehicle were a veteran car?
    regards from Canada

    ian

  9. #23
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    Actually they also changed the law to make it legal to cross solid lines to give a bike room. You did all know of course it is illegal to cross any single solid line not just double lines (bikes included, changing lanes or undertaking for instance near intersections)?

  10. #24
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    So I had a mate mowed down by an errant 4WD "driver". His wife and three kids think these laws are a good idea. He doesnt get to have an opinion any more. Should have charged the effwit with manslaughter IMO.
    "We must never become callous. When we experience the conflicts ever more deeply we are living in truth. The quiet conscience is an invention of the devil." - Albert Schweizer

    My blog. http://theupanddownblog.blogspot.com

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebastiaan56 View Post
    So I had a mate mowed down by an errant 4WD "driver". His wife and three kids think these laws are a good idea. He doesnt get to have an opinion any more. Should have charged the effwit with manslaughter IMO.
    That is sad....very sad. Innocent victims are very much the down side of situations such as this.
    I love motor bikes. Big motor bikes and bush bikes. But I will not ride one on the road. Why? Because its dangerous. I know. Ive spent six months in hospital after being side swiped by a petrol tanker at 110kph on an express way. Why anyone would want to expose them self to such a high level of risk is now beyond me. I was lucky. Many arn't. Yes, you can blame the other driver, blame the road condition, blame the weather. But the bottom line is; you took the risk. Protection? A helmet...Oh please. The other bloke's got tons of steel and air bags plus a bullbar to boot (literally). But no, you will chance your arm against all that. And fortified with your puny helmet and a thin coating of lycra, go out, on a daily basis, to do battle with the ever increasing hoard of traffic that has enough to do avoiding collision with each other, let alone some suicidal maniac who wants to mix it on a bloody push bike. Now you see him, now you don't. Its called a blind spot and that is exactly what it is. The smaller the object and the larger the blind spot, the longer the object is out of site. Nasty. Very nasty.
    Why push your luck?

  12. #26
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    Why should it be dangerous to ride a bike on the road? I grew up in Elmore and rode to school in Rochester along the Northern Highway three times per week when I was a teenager. There was the highway, a random white line and then a 3-4" drop to the gravel on the side... there was no shoulder to ride on and I rode on the highway not the gravel. I never once had a single problem with cars, trucks, buses or motorbikes getting past me and was never on the receiving end of abuse.

    Now when I go out on the bike I expect to receive some form of abuse or experience a dangerous driver. That said, I refuse to have a$$hole drivers dictate whether I ride on the road or not.
    It's only a mistake if you don't learn from it.

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by corbs View Post
    Why should it be dangerous to ride a bike on the road? I grew up in Elmore and rode to school in Rochester along the Northern Highway three times per week when I was a teenager. There was the highway, a random white line and then a 3-4" drop to the gravel on the side... there was no shoulder to ride on and I rode on the highway not the gravel. I never once had a single problem with cars, trucks, buses or motorbikes getting past me and was never on the receiving end of abuse.

    Now when I go out on the bike I expect to receive some form of abuse or experience a dangerous driver. That said, I refuse to have a$$hole drivers dictate whether I ride on the road or not.
    Fine. The choice is yours. If you are happy taking the risk then go for it. Just remember, a percentage of those a$$holes are drug or alcohol affected. Others are too busy looking out for the traffic that has increased significantly in the twenty years since you were a teenager. While a further group have a similar attitude to your good self. That being that they are not going to be dictated to by some a$$hole on a pushbike. It breaks both ways....and usually the cyclist comes out very much worse off. Motor vehicle driving is an art of avoidance....avoiding pot holes, stray dog, kids chasing balls, other motorists, the list goes on and on. And to add insult to injury, we have the privilege of watching out for the kamikaze cyclist who believes it to be his divine right to add to the mayhem for no other reason other than he can.
    We are only human. Mistakes get made. On a bike, in traffic, they are usually fatal.

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustynail View Post
    Fine. The choice is yours...
    If the choice is mine why do you feel the need to continue lecturing me about it?
    It's only a mistake if you don't learn from it.

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by rustynail View Post
    Fine. The choice is yours.
    The choice of riding a bicycle is indeed his and the choice to drive is yours.

    But whether you drive or cycle both must obey the road laws and that puts great obligations on you as a driver.

    A few years back I was called for jury service in a case where an idiot motorist caused an accident with another car which was pushed into a cyclist who soon after died from his injuries. We found the idiot motorist guilty of the various charges laid by the police and it will be another 2 years before he will qualify for parole. I just hope that he is reflecting on his driving attitude whilst enjoying his prison term.

    As I said the choice of how you drive is yours but be aware of the consequences of that choice and in our jury the point raised by the defence of mistakes, lapse of concentration etc was ignored as it should have.

    Peter.

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by corbs View Post
    If the choice is mine why do you feel the need to continue lecturing me about it?
    Lecturing? You are not being lectured. You have been given the choice, along with a courteous expression of the possible risks that may befall you. I realise it is difficult to put an old head on young shoulders and often we dont wake up until we are confronted, personally, with a situation. Thats fine, provided the experience does not prove fatal. Believe me, six months in a hospital bed gives one plenty of time to think. Thats if you've got anything left to think with.

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