Thread: More Sorry Suggestions

This has been an interesting read. I have just realised my lack of compassion is because I have not read a book. I have always been a believer in helping others where you can, be it financially or by any other method. The past thirty five years has seen literally billions of dollars spent trying to help those who need help.
"you cannot help those who have no desire or will to help themselves, except maybe take away the bloody grog".
The "Stolen" generations which are written about can be said of every people on this earth and the people of today really did not play a part in this. I believe that the quicker the Goverment of the day starts to treat every body as equal in Australia the quicker this crap will mend itself, it may take another fifty years or so.

Would someone please tell me why on every form that you fill out you are asked if you are aboriginal or torres straight islander. Perhaps if every one ticked this box on every form we may solve a few problems created by the powers to be ourselves.

I hope Kev does not say sorry on my behalf, I do not consider that I have done any one on this earth a wrong of any type or description.

Regards Mike

I'm an immigrant who came after these injustices were done. I personally did not do any of this.

BUT I'm glad that the nation, through its natianal parliament tackles this problem and acknowledges that wrongs were done by previous generations and says sorry.

Hopefully this will be a turning point in our relations with the original people of this country and that we now start to deal with each other as Australians, not white or black or aboriginals or dutch or chinese Australians, but Australians, like our anthem says. That race and racial backgrounds become obsolete and irrelevant.


BTW there are already legal mechanisms in place for anyone aggrieved by previous governments action to claim compensation if a court considers it to be just, so there is no reason not to say sorry in that regard.


Peter.

Interesting thread, and goes to show there is more than woodshavings talked about here!
If saying the S word clears the air and enables everyone to move on, with a real effort from both sides to improve to living standards of indigenous people, I'm all for it. I detest that other word 'closure' too, but if that what it takes...
As long as it doesn't open up the floodgates for compensation claims, as many people fear (prompted no doubt by self-serving legal parasites), I can't see the problem.
It would appear to be specifically about the stolen generation, but has come to include a wider cultural disruption, and as said earlier, its a symbolic gesture.

(Personally I'm waiting for an apology from the thieving English myself, for their part in clearing the Highlands of Scotland; and then another from the Danes and Swedes for the depredations on my forebears in the Hebrides! I don't want compensation, just an acknowledgement they were (and still are) murderous, thieving, rapacious Imperialists etc, and we were here before them.)
Yes astrid I read.

What I want to know is whether there will be an equally official "statement of forgiveness"? I mean, what's the point of apology if someone isn't going to stand up and say "that's ok, we forgive you"? Who is going to do that?

Bet they don't.

Originally Posted by astrid

get over you, dazzler,
This apology is about the representitives of the non indiginous australian people saying sorry for the destruction of another culture, by deliberately breaking up the ties that held that culture together, its not about you, or your grandad.
If any one of you has read one book on this subject, not the herald or the australian, but has bothered to go to the library and read one book,
then you may be entitled to an opinion


Astrid

Hi Astrid,

Once again you feel the need to attack me on a personal level as my thoughts dont align with yours. So I am not entitled to an opinion because you think I dont go to the library?. Are you for real?. Or is it simply the case that you dont possess the skills to debate an issue on facts and instead aggressively attack people to make them back away.

This is about me, because MY Prime Minister is about to apologise on MY behalf. Something I believe he has no right to do. If I need to apologise for something then I will apologise.

Clear your mind for a moment, have no perceptions of who or what you think I am, and I will give you my reasons for being against this. Its a bit long, but I have taken the time to read what you have written so please recipricate.

Mind clear?
Ready?
Here goes;

Governments in Australia try to do the right thing at the time they do it. Australians in general are decent people. I totally accept and am saddened by the terrible things that happened to indigenous people. This is to say that when I read or hear about them I feel sad. I dont personalise the feeling because I didnt do it, no more than I would for the people of Iraq, who are suffering a terrible fate. I am saddened by thier fate, but feel no guilt for the occurance.

I reject the idea that previous governments set out to destroy aboriginal culture. I believe that previous governments, like our previous one, genuinely wanted to help aboriginal people, and did thier best using methodoligies of the day. I base this on the belief that we have shown through the ages that we are decent bunch, by the values of the time.

In relation to the removal of half caste children I believe it was done without malice, but in an attempt to keep the aborignal population undiluted (that doesnt sound nice but I cant think of a better word) by removing them. My understanding is that many half caste children were not treated well by the communities and it was considered better to bring them up as "white kids". To give them a "chance" so to speak of having a "better" life. I believe this was done with the best interests of the children and with the wisdom of the time. The govt wasnt to know that there were sick &^&&'s within the church and foster homes that would target children put in thier care and damage them, in many cases irrepairably. The police and other welfare people in my opinion didnt know either the fate that would beset many children, of all colours, once they went into care.

I dont believe that any Australian Govt ever set out with the intention of committing genocide or destroying Aboriginal People. However, the govts through our history have been stuck with one problem. Either put a fence between Indigenous and Non Indigenous people to keep thier culture intact, or try and integrate. And this is the problem. Its a one foot in and one foot out approach that leaves them in nowhere land.

I also believe that any child who is/was neglected should be removed from the parents. Kids get one crack at life and parents who cant perform the role forfeit the right. As a cop I saw this at least once ever two or three days and it colour/race/religion is no barrier. And yes it made me very sad.

Why no apology on MY behalf?

I HATE victimhood. I mean I really HATE it. It serves no purpose other than to allow people to wallow in self pity. My own personal experience of victimhood is like this;

My mother, as I said earlier, was taken from her unfit mother. (Her mothers side are Tasmanian Aboriginal from the 1830's New Norfolk). Mum was molested while in care. She dealt with it through strength. She is proud that she survived it and never personalised it and does not identify as a victim. My dad was in the Navy and suffered PTSD. He fell in with the Vietnam Veterans because he was in mission at sea during Vietnam. He now identifys as a vet. He goes to vet counselling and is now a victim, to his detriment. He identifies as a victim and he gets more mentally unwell each year.

So for someone to apologise for something that I, nor my children, had anything to do with is inappropriate. It will also achieve nothing. It might make a few people feel better for a short time, but in the end it will do more damage than good.

What I do support is full and just compensation for these people who have had crimes committed against them. I support free medical and psychological help for them. I support assisted living and accommodation for them. ALL a hell of a lot more than Mr RUDD is about to do, seeing as compensation is not part of His Sorry agenda.

regards

Dazzler

Fully agree with Journeyman Mick's comments, those of Bittingmidge's and Dazzler. And those of Noel Pearson who I have a great respect for because he's putting aside all the carp and getting on with trying to make lives better for those that he has been elected into his office to do - which is more than can be said for 07Rudd and his self-serving interests.

Yes I've been through Purfleet - fast. I've dodged bricks and others stuff thrown at cars going through the round about at Purfleet. (just letting you know that i know where it is - so you don't think I'm a city bloke who knows nothing okay, I could go on with more about people I knew etc. but there's no point).

While the "fence" remains and until boxes need not be ticked anymore, there will be lines waiting for their what is "theirs" because that is what they have grown up to know.

We are all Australian under the same sky.

Originally Posted by astrid

This thread sucks.
and i'll say no more to all you pathetic sods regarding your trivial little whinges
I am disgusted

Astrid

Wow, just read this thread.

Me thinks, you didn't keep your promise Astrid

(BTW someone asked for your qualifications in this area, unles I missed your reply, I don't think you answered that question)

Originally Posted by Greg Ward

Most Australians are city based. They get their 'learnin' from books.

For these, 'Sorry' it is an emotional thing, an easy way to get out of having to really do anything of consequence.

Most city folks who agree with 'the sorry' dont know any aborigionals, have never met any aboriginals, have hardly seen them, have never been to the outback or even Purfleet, wouldn't have any knowledge of their problems or any solutions either: saying sorry makes them feel good.

It achieves little else.



Greg

This thread is a microcosm of Australia, and this quote sums it up not to badly. there are some great stories and posts here, and strangely the poster who is most emotional about others peoples views is judgemental about those views rather than empathetic towards others experience.

Here's a tough one for many to handle, but I used to visit Taree a week at a time every 2nd month for a number of years - because of my upbringing - academic socialist parent in the city, I was gobsmacked at how racist the locals were - and openly so within their own confines - no embarrassment at all.

After a few years, and also understanding why purfleet is the way it is, i didnt share their views but i did come to the realisation that had I been brought up with their experiences in their town I would very likely be just like them with their racism - there for the grace of God go I.

If there is anything to be sorry about vis a vis the aboriginals (and their many nations), it is the relocation and provision of housing estates etc that has done most to ensure a poor future, and ensure a divide - but at the same time it kept the "problem" out of the eyes of the city dwellers that made the policy - a problem unseen is not my problem......

Oh, and Noel Pearson for PM!

Let's face it, this whole business is becoming an 'industry'. My family is littered with Australian Aboriginal, Chinese, English, Scots and Irish and
all our forebears have conducted acts that we today, and God only knows why, think should be compensated for. What's that saying? "The 'sins' of the father etc.?" What sins? Holy dooley, sounds like a never-ending feud.
Let's acknowledge that things MIGHT have been done differently, but only with the benefit of hindsight, of course.
Mia culpa? I don't think so.

An idea has just come to me while typing this.
Let's not do that stuff any more and treat each other with mutual respect.

OK. That won't work. I'll think of something else and get back to you.

Originally Posted by Toyboy

Let's not do that stuff any more and treat each other with mutual respect.

Isnt that the basis of the religions of the world?

South Africa and East Timor have had success with truth and reconciliation commissions. There are a lot of very painful stories on both sides and in the telling people can move on. This should be part of the process. The aboriginal people also need to forgive. We should drop our expectation that they will like/ want to adopt our culture.

I am also an immigrant so am not strictly personally culpable but if it helps the aboriginal nations move on it should be done. I am after all the recipient of the history of all of my ancestors and the country I choose to live in. The only approriate body left to apologise is the government as the individuals reponsible are mostly gone.

Sebastiaan

Isnt that the basis of the religions of the world?

I wouldn't have thought so. Based on appearances, I thought it was more to do with arguing to the death over whose invisible friend is better.

The other observation I would make is that people seem to be extending the idea of apology to the entire Aboriginal situation. I thought this was an issue involving a select number of individuals, not the whole race. We are supposedly apologising for what a past government did to a subset of the indigenous population (individuals who would not have existed if the Europeans had not come), not for coming here in the first place.

So how is an apology going to improve the lot of indigenous Australians in general, when the large majority of them are not affected by it?

Originally Posted by silentC

So how is an apology going to improve the lot of indigenous Australians in general, when the large majority of them are not affected by it?

I dont think any apology will materially improve anyone's lot. What it may do is relieve some of the anger. But in the end the offended still have to forgive.

A bit like the Jews after WW2, or the Japanese comfort women, survivors of families necklaced by the ANC, families who lost the lot in East Timor. Some manage to move on, some dont. The received offense doesnt define a person but their individual response does. The Dalai Lama doesnt seem to carry a lot of anger and resentment to the Chinese, he seems to be able to move on. Ive met one elder who moved on and a lot of younger aboriginal people who havent.

The apology is for the Stolen Generation but any apology will recognise that there was communal hurt, I think that is the point,

Originally Posted by astrid

so, burnsy, have you read one book.

Astrid

Johnc I agree in ageneral sense, but sorry has to be said,

Come on Astrid you're obviously bursting to tell us.......how many books have you read ?

Originally Posted by astrid

Oh hello, (not you midge, i'll get to you later)
what the nazi's did to the gypsies, homosexuals and Jews, was within the law at the time,
when it happens in living memory, are you too small to appologise, or in this case let your government apologise on your ancestors behalf.
Shame on you

Astrid

I think the Nazis read books I think Hitler even wrote one.

HH.