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  1. #1
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    Default Kenyon Inspired Dovetail Saw

    There has been a flurry of Kenyon inspired dovetail saws, since Chris Schwartz posted a write up on his blog a few weeks back,
    see... the blog here A 1770's saw turned up at the WIA conference,
    (Maybe if it was made in 1776, it could called be called the Independence Saw.... no wait, that's already been done..)

    Mike Wenzloff is making some, and are going to be keenly sought after..

    Rather than try and make a replica, I have gone down the easier path of just "inspired by Kenyon"

    In this interpretation, I have tapered the spine slightly (about 1/8), and the blade is canted as well.
    Filed to 18ppi rip. Handle is walnut, finished with shellac and wax.







    The bottom picture shows the scan that was the inspiration...
    I think If I did another I would stick with the original shape, just under the beak at the top front...

    mine looks a little light by comparison..

    Regards
    Ray

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  3. #2
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    Default

    You do amazing work Ray.
    Simply lovely. What do yo do with all of these saws that you are making?
    Ever thought of selling a few off?
    Thanks for sharing
    Kevin

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevjed View Post
    You do amazing work Ray.
    Simply lovely. What do yo do with all of these saws that you are making?
    Ever thought of selling a few off?
    Thanks for sharing
    Kevin
    Hi Kevin,

    This is another in that annual event, the great Christmas rush to make presents, .. last year it was chopping boards, this year it's dovetail saws.. Usually, when I hand out the presents, i have to say something like, careful, the paint might still be wet.

    No intention of selling any, that would spoil the fun I get from making them..

    Regards
    Ray

  5. #4
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    Hi Ray,
    I'm glad the you are making them for the love of it. It makes the tools more precious to the end user.
    Love your work on the plane too.
    All the best
    Kevin

  6. #5
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    Perth, WA
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    Beautiful work once again Ray.

    J!

  7. #6
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    Really great work there Ray, You have inspired me, I am not yet ready to make my own saw, but after seeing this I have cleaned up my old Wilkinson (with a dreadfull plastic handle), ready to re handle it, at the moment it looks like being done in Jarrah - unless someone in Perth has something nicer that I could buy from them?

    Denn

  8. #7
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    What a superb little saw - someone is going to be VERY pleased on the 25th!

    It's like the little saw I have, but your handle is much better done. Mine 'evolved' from a small, cheap knife-handled Sears saw bought more than 30 years ago. The only original bit is the blade, which is 20 thou thick (which I guess yours is too), not 17 thou like the 'original' - wonder if that makes any practical difference? When I made the handle (also Black Walnut), I was working from a fairly poor photo of Duncan Phyfe's toolbox, so had to do a fair bit of guessing. As you can see, I got the tote angle way too steep - mine really is a "pistol" grip! One day I'll get around to making a new one with a more typical angle on the tote. In any case - it's an extremely handy little thing - I use it more than any other saw I have.

    Cheers,
    IW

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayG View Post

    The bottom picture shows the scan that was the inspiration...
    I think If I did another I would stick with the original shape, just under the beak at the top front...

    mine looks a little light by comparison..

    Regards
    Ray
    Ray,
    That is a pretty little saw, I love the bevel on the walnut around the screws that changes into the rounding of the handle.
    The lightness of that area under the beak is something I still get occasionally, even after 32 years of drawing a design, laying it out and then putting a bevel or a chamfer on it. I still have to consciously make an allowance for it in the step between the design and cutting out the piece, leaving sufficient material to avoid it. They are lightening tricks in a design, and sometimes have to be allowed for early, and aren't at all obvious in a drawing.
    I'm asked sometimes by clients to see a work in progress, but the last bit of finishing, rounding or chamfering can move the weight of a piece, or soften an edge, create a shadow, and reflect light in a particular way, and so completely change the way a piece looks. The risk is the clients sees it as unbalanced and / or clumsy. You got the reverse, it went from your well balanced design to a lightness you weren't expecting.
    Some people will look at a piece of work and not like it much, and never know why. I think that once these types of design elements are understood, and how they effect the way an item is seen, they can be applied to many creative enterprises, not just tool making.
    I see that you are becoming more in control of these design aspects, and as you do, your fluency in them is noticeably increasing...well done!

    Regards,
    Peter

  10. #9
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    Peter - I looked long & hard at that fine neck, too. It certainly gives it a lightness & flow, but I'm a bit dubious about its strength over the long haul, bearing in mind that not all users have a gentle touch, & the occasional trip to the floor is inevitable in the life of a working tool.

    This may be over-critical - it looks so much better than my clumsy effort. For a tool that is going to see a lot of use I too would settle on something more like the original, as Ray said, which puts a bit more beef back in the crucial spot.....

    My 2c,
    IW

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by IanW View Post
    I'm a bit dubious about its strength over the long haul,
    My thoughts too.

    Also I will possibly make mine with that steep tote angle that you have Ian, reason being that due to arthritis I had to have my wrist fused some years ago - and a steel wrist just doesn't flex so the the tote angle needs to be at 90deg' to a line from my elbow to the saw.

    Hopefully I shall make a sketch of what I'm thinking and ask for comment - That's if you more knowlegeable souls don't mind

    Denn

  12. #11
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    Denn - the only real drawback I can see to the more 'vertical' handle is that it can foul the bench surface when using a bench-hook. Otherwise it's rarely a problem. The one above was the first time I attempted a pistol-grip handle, and quite a long time after I made it, I came across the template I now usually use (which is allegedly from a very old saw) and realised how different they are - it's like Ray's example. Funnily enough, I like both angles, & don't find it affects comfort or accuracy in use, so the message is probably go for what feels right to your battered joints. All you really need to worry about is making sure you have enough clearance for your pinkies, between handle & the back of the saw. I'd rough up a few handles out of something cheap & cheerful & try them to see what works best for you. This has another advantage in that you can practise gettiing the shaping right without worrying about messing up a very nice or expensive bit of wood.....

    I'll attach the drawing of the 'regular' handle. It prints out full size. You can use that to start with, to get the rough proportions, but you may have to alter the cheeks (too big for a small saw) or make the neck a bit longer so that when you bring the handle down it leaves enough room at the back of the saw.

    Cheers,
    IW

  13. #12
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    Thanks for that Ian,

    I like the look of that one, mind you I shall need to bring the grip to a more vertical angle so as to suit my wrist. That may or may not require me to extend the neck some as swinging that grip around may bring the bottom of it too close to the saw (we'll see).

    I will certainly follow your idea of making some out of probably radiata before committing myself to butchering a nice piece of real wood.

    Denn

  14. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by dennford View Post
    My thoughts too.

    Also I will possibly make mine with that steep tote angle that you have Ian, reason being that due to arthritis I had to have my wrist fused some years ago - and a steel wrist just doesn't flex so the the tote angle needs to be at 90deg' to a line from my elbow to the saw.

    Hopefully I shall make a sketch of what I'm thinking and ask for comment - That's if you more knowlegeable souls don't mind

    Denn
    Hi Denn, I haven't really thought about it, but the thing you are looking for in the "hang angle" is where your index finger points when the saw is held with your natural grip. I would think that with a fused wrist, you actually might have an advantage when sawing
    over us "limp wristed" types.. the action of ( arc of) the elbow is where you can get that "overcenter" lock..

    you can find a few handle templates here.. http://www.backsaw.net/cpg/thumbnails.php?album=7

    And just modify them to suit your grip.


    Hi Ian,
    I sent a bit of 1095 yesterday for you to play with, regarding the neck thickness. I like the look and feel, my only concern is is it going to be robust enough?.. If it breaks I'll just make another one

    Regards
    Ray

  15. #14
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    I'm heading out for the afternoon, but you have given me something to think about - plus enough handle patterns to confuse me.

    Thanks very much


    Denn

  16. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayG View Post
    Hi Ian,
    I sent a bit of 1095 yesterday for you to play with, regarding the neck thickness. I like the look and feel, my only concern is is it going to be robust enough?.. If it breaks I'll just make another one Regards, Ray
    Thanks Ray - I have still got your wood samples here, & probably won't get them in the post until Monday, the way things are going. So don't plan on using them this weekend!

    As I said, I like the fine look of the handle you fitted, & it may never be a problem. I used to worry about the amount of short grain in the grip and all those little decorative bits on the handles I've made, but have not had a serious breakage on any (yet!) despite the odd kamikaze roll off the bench. I have a couple of very old saws - one has a lovely handle in pristine condition, the other looks like it has been chewed on & off by rabid termites, so perhaps that says more about the carefulness of previous owners......

    Cheers,
    IW

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