Thread: Sliding table and out-feed table for TSC-10HB table saw

Ok. I have spent the past couple of days cutting melamine sheets for kitchen carcases and have found that first and foremost, the sliding table and outfeed table combination works. There is however, some room for improvement.

Crosscut fence
As previously suggested, a timber fence is not optimal since it's difficult to mount it dead straight and keep it there. I suspect I will replace it with something like a length of RHS and hinge it as per Specialist's "mechanism" video clip. My table is easy enough to remove for ripping (the XCut fence gets in the way of most rips) and replace for cross cutting, but flipping the fence down would be much better. It also needs the stop block and rule already mentioned

Swing arm
The swing arm is most susceptible to flex on full extension at the beginning of a cross cut. I have been noticing that part way into cutting a full sheet, the stock begins to bind on the blade. The top four or five mm of the cut is then found to be burnt, with the exception of the first few hundred mm. I adjust the sliding table height (at the end of the arm) with the table at the start of the cut when the arm is most extended (flexed). I will investigate this properly tomorrow, but I think that when the leverage decreases as the arm shortens, it picks up the back of the table causing the stock to bind the top of the cut. If this proves true, I'll remake the first arm segment with heavier RHS to hopefully remove the flex

Switch box
I am not convinced about the current relocation of the switch box to the right hand side of the saw. I seem to often find myself on the left side of the rail, reaching across the front of the saw to switch it on or off, putting my head in the line of fire of any offcuts/slinters etc that may be loose around the blade. I'll look into this further, I think.

Conclusion
Even with the improvements that come to mind, I'm very happy with a first time effort, done on the cheap that I made up as I went along.
I'll post again with any further results.

Cheers,
Mick

I'm glad that you're sliding bench works out of the box, there is always room for improvemnet, even with mine, I had to fine tune the flex part of it. I ended up putting that piece of 6mm rod as a brace and later welded a small turnbuckle in place so that I could put it under pressure. You could do the same or even a small chain with a turnbuckle would do the job. It would be a lot easier than making a new frame and remounting it, and would do a better job.

I hope that this is some use to you.

Robert

Nice work guys

Hey Specialist, my TSC10HB is on it's way to Longreach and I'll be there in 2 weeks, perhaps we can make a table for mine

Cheers, Jack

I can feel a little bartering coming on here.?

It could well be arranged.

Robert

Thanks for the suggestion, Robert, but my bent arm adds a rotational component to the droop that you're talking about. The cross-bracing you mention will be useful, but I'll need to address both problems to make it fully rigid.

Cheers,
Mick

Sorry, I didn't think about the rotation. you could weldin two braces as shown and that should stiffen it sufficently to do the job. You will have to make sure that the corners are mitred in so that they pick up the sides of both rail and post. see other photo. This small frame held a fullsized hitachi jackhammer from sagging, both down and rotationallly.

If you make a new one, I would do it out of 75 x 25 rhs and then do the same thing to make it rigid

Robert

Yeah, 75 x 25 in at least 2mm wall would be ideal, I reckon.

If you make a new one, make the swinging frame that attaches to the cabinet a trapezoid so that the hinges are spaced further apart or the lower hinge is closer to the bottom of the cabinet if that makes sense. If you look at where specialist drew the diagonal cross brace in red on the photo above, distort that rectangle by stretching the lower hinge towards the bottom of the cabinet.

Hi all,
I thought I would post about further improvements to my Carbatec TSC 10HB table saw.

Here is some of what I had to say earlier...

Room for improvement
-Fence really should be an aluminium extrusion to preclude possible movement with weather changes. Adjustable angle could be nice, also.
-Fence needs some sort of stop block working with a rule like the rip fence.
-Swing arm works, but heavier gauge RHS should remove some of the flex.
-Swing arm to table attachment is currently a bit roungh. Something with a bit more finesse than a screw poking down the end of a bit of pipe would be good.

In addition to the above, the following points are also worth considering:
-Mobile base footprint was too small. was only a temporary fix anyway.
-Support leg to account for sliding table mass, shown in the first picture of post#6 was nothing short of dangerous and I should fess up to the 12 stitches and great scar it gave me when I walked into the sharp end of it .
-Dust extraction at the blade guard.
-Factory mitre gauge requires work to improve from woefully inadequate to acceptable.
-New switch box location still not ideal for a spatially challenged workshop.

So. Going through the list...

The crosscut fence in now an aluminium extrusion with adjustable angle and stop-block. NewFence1.jpg shows the current setup. NewFence2.jpg shows the bodged up flip stop that still requires work. It's a bit of flat bar tacked onto a 100 mm hinge with scrap of acrylic as a cursor window to read a steel rule that is not yet installed. There is no significance to the four lines on the window, I was just testing scribing techniques. NewFence3.jpg shows the adjustment knob for the flip stop. A hinge has too much play in it for acceptable accuracy so I intend fabricating something more stable at some stage.
NewFence4.jpg shows a mushroom shaped block in the lower channel which retains a bolt to hold the outer end of the fence to the table. The bolt goes through a slot in the table to allow for fine adjustment. The blade end of the fence is secured with a similar bolt and block arrangement, through a hole instead of a slot. Also visible is the length of angle bolted through the RH side of the fence used as an index stop when the fence needs to moved/removed. To reset to an accurate 90 degrees, the angle is pushed against the screw head in the side of the table and the table bolt is then tightened. Screw depth gives fine adjustment to 90 degree cross cuts. To obtain angle cuts, the table bolt is removed, angle stop swung up out of the way, the fence swung around to the required position and the table bolt installed and tightened again. NewFence5.jpg highlights how another mushroom block is used with the flip stop.

Swing arm flex has been found to not be a problem. The blade binding issues mentioned earlier were tracked down to splitter alignment.

As rough as a bit of gal water pipe and a roofing screw looks for arm to table location, it works fine and wont be changed any time soon.

Sadly the verandah post is in the way, but NewFence1.jpg shows the new mobile base that the saw is now securely bolted to. The increase in saw height was quite deliberate - I'm 6'6". The footprint of the new base is more than enough to support the weight of the extension table without the old support leg. The outfeed table still has a separate leg, but will soon be attached to the base and not the floor as sometimes moving the saw after set up is required.

Dust extraction at the blade guard is now very effective after making a new one from acrylic sheet.

The old trick with a pin punch on the sides of the mitre guage rail takes up the slop in the table slots and also works on the otherwise sloppy pivot pin. A half height (square profile, not rectangular) length of the same profile as the cross cut fence and similar flip stop setup has been reasonable effective. If I use it enough, I'll probably get rid of it in favour of something by incra or kreg to have repeatable accuracy on angle changes. A few measure and adjust cycles are required with the factory one which would become painful if it was used a lot.

The factory mounting of the switch box (and how I re-located it) left it protruding too far out from the saw and I accidently whacked the stop switch a couple of times moving machinery around. (My workshop is very squeezy and everything is on wheels) I took the original hanging bracket off and mounted it directly to the saw with a bit of 100 mm SHS to space it forward a bit. (Partially visible in NewFence1.jpg) The stop switch still protrudes from the front rail just enough to easily get to it with you hand or leg, but is no longer in danger of being damaged.

Dusty1.jpg and Dusty2.jpg show my new home-brew cyclone attached to the saw.

Originally Posted by mikm

Hi all,
I thought I would post about further improvements to my Carbatec TSC 10HB table saw.

Here is some of what I had to say earlier...



In addition to the above, the following points are also worth considering:
-Mobile base footprint is too small.
-Support leg to account for sliding table mass, shown in the first picture of post#6 was nothing short of dangerous and I should fess up to the 12 stitches and great scar it gave me when I walked into the sharp end of it .
-Dust extraction at the blade guard.
-Factory mitre gauge requires work to improve from woefully inadequate to acceptable.
-New switch box location still not ideal for a spatially challenged workshop.

So. Going through the list...

The crosscut fence in now an aluminium extrusion with adjustable angle and stop-block. NewFence1.jpg shows the current setup. NewFence2.jpg shows the bodged up flip stop that still requires work. It's a bit of flat bar tacked onto a 100 mm hinge with scrap of acrylic as a cursor window to read a steel rule that is not yet installed. There is no significance to the four lines on the window, I was just testing scribing techniques. NewFence3.jpg shows the adjustment knob for the flip stop. A hinge has too much play in it for acceptable accuracy so I intend fabricating something more stable at some stage.
NewFence4.jpg shows a mushroom shaped block in the lower channel which retains a bolt to hold the outer end of the fence to the table. The bolt goes through a slot in the table to allow for fine adjustment. The blade end of the fence is secured with a similar bolt and block arrangement, through a hole instead of a slot. Also visible is the length of angle bolted through the RH side of the fence used as an index stop when the fence needs to moved/removed. To reset to an accurate 90 degrees, the angle is pushed against the screw head in the side of the table and the table bolt is then tightened. Screw depth gives fine adjustment to 90 degree cross cuts. To obtain angle cuts, the table bolt is removed, angle stop swung up out of the way, the fence swung around to the required position and the table bolt installed and tightened again. NewFence5.jpg highlights how another mushroom block is used with the flip stop.

Swing arm flex has been found to not be a problem. The blade binding issues mentioned earlier were tracked down to splitter alignment.

As rough as a bit of gal water pipe and a roofing screw looks for arm to table location, it works fine and wont be changed any time soon.

Sadly the verandah post is in the way, but NewFence1.jpg shows the new mobile base that the saw is now securely bolted to. The increase in saw height was quite deliberate - I'm 6'6". The footprint of the new base is more than enough to support the weight of the extension table without the old support leg. The outfeed table still has a separate leg, but will soon be attached to the base and not the floor as sometimes moving the saw after set up is required.

Dust extraction at the blade guard is now very effective after making a new one from acrylic sheet.

The old trick with a pin punch on the sides of the mitre guage rail takes up the slop in the table slots and also works on the otherwise sloppy pivot pin. A half height (square profile, not rectangular) length of the same profile as the cross cut fence and similar flip stop setup has been reasonable effective. If I use it enough, I'll probably get rid of it in favour of something by incra or kreg to have repeatable accuracy on angle changes. A few measure and adjust cycles are required with the factory one which would become painful if it was used a lot.

The factory mounting of the switch box (and how I re-located it) left it protruding too far out from the saw and I accidently whacked the stop switch a couple of times moving machinery around. (My workshop is very squeezy and everything is on wheels) I took the original hanging bracket off and mounted it directly to the saw with a bit of 100 mm SHS to space it forward a bit. (Partially visible in NewFence1.jpg) The stop switch still protrudes from the front rail just enough to easily get to it with you hand or leg, but is no longer in danger of being damaged.

Dusty1.jpg and Dusty2.jpg show my new home-brew cyclone attached to the saw.

mikm,
what would the overal cost be for this type of mod to the tsc 10hb

here are some rough figures - i had a lot of materials on hand so there will be a guess or two here...

mobile base:
a few 2400 lengths of 38 x 38 x 3 RHS >>> probably paid $11 each
4 x locking castors >>> ~$6 each from the local cheap shop.

sliding table:
half sheet of 25mm melamine chipboard. >>> full sheet may have cost me ~$70
carriage bearings x 4 >>> $7 or so each from CBC
fence extrusion >>> ~$50 from somewhere like linear bearings.
slide blocks to suit fence >>> maybe a few dollars each
adjustment knobs >>> $3 each from fastner places

outfeed table:
off cut from 2400 x 1200 x 25 melamine sheet above
mounted on steel off cuts for leg and front supports, so no specific prices there.

swing arm:
around 8 m of 50 x 25 x 2.5 RHS >>> you'll have to price that up, i had off cuts lying around.
two sets of gate hinges >>> $10 / pair from the local cheap shop mentioned above. I have seen double that in many hardware stores.
75 mm angle, 300 or 400 long >>> i used an off cut.

rail:
65 x 65 x 2.5 RHS, 2200 long >>> was given to me as an offcut, no idea of price to length or to metre.
rail hanger:
125 x 75 x 7 angle, 1300 long >>> bought second hand years ago. would probably fabricate something out RHS like the 38 x 38 x 3 used for the mobile base if i was to do again, as finding that profile angle might be difficult and expensive.

blade guard:
offcuts of acrylic sheet >>> was given the acrylic, so i have no idea of cost.

various bolts, screws etc that I had lying around. i probably spent a couplahunge or so to get stuff that i didnt already have.

keep in mind that this stuff is not necessarily specific to the 10HB saw. i can't see any reason why something similar can't be fabricated in a similarly cost-effective manner for any saw with a removable left extension wing.

Originally Posted by mikm

--10HB SPECIFIC STUFF--:

- LH extension table removed (holes already exist to potentially use this to extend the RH wing)
- Rip fence guide rails moved to the right using existing holes. (See this post)
- Switch box moved to RH extension wing using existing holes.


--GENERIC DESIGN--:

Hanging bracket
- 1300 x 125 x 75 x 7 mm angle (what I had lying around) bolted to saw in place of the LH wing.

Guide rail
- Mounts fabricated from 2.5 mm steel to fix 2200 x 65 x 65 x 2.5 mm RHS at 45 deg to hanging bracket. I wanted a minimum of 1200 cross cut capacity so 2500 would have been ideal, but I just moved the carriages under the sliding table a bit closer together to compensate for the shorter rail.

Swing arm
- 25 x 50 x 1.5 mm RHS was on hand, but 2 mm or even 2.5 mm would be better. The arm will hold the weight of 1200 x 1200 x 25 mm chipboard without any problems, but there is a bit of flex with increasing weight.
- Hinges are ball bearig gate hinges and work well, particularly being easily de-mountable.
- A single length of angle iron to mount the arm to the saw would be ideal, but I only had short lengths so I used two lengths of plate to join them into a single structure.
- The height adjustment at the end of the arm consists of a 'large' bolt and nut with a length of gal water pipe. At the moment, a roofing screw in the table pokes down the end of the pipe to stop the arm wandering off.

Carriages
-I investigated linear bearing systems and cam followers for the slide, but the cheapest solution (about $6 each) was to make my own cam followers using M8 bolts and a generic 22 x 7 mm bearing from CBC bearings.
-Height ajdustment of the saw side of the sliding table is with shims between the carriages and the underside of the sliding table. Something more elegant would be nice, but quick and dirty works.

Fence
-Length of hardwood screwed to the table.

Room for improvement
-Fence really should be an aluminium extrusion to preclude possible movement with weather changes. Adjustable angle could be nice, also.
-Fence needs some sort of stop block working with a rule like the rip fence.
-Swing arm works, but heavier gauge RHS should remove some of the flex.
-Swing arm to table attachment is currently a bit roungh. Something with a bit more finesse than a screw poking down the end of a bit of pipe would be good.

So. Now to open the floor. Any suggestions for improvements that may improve the existing design, or to assist anybody else contemplating a similar build would be much appreciated.

Merry christmas all. I hope everyone has a happy and safe holiday.

Cheers,
Mick

I am quite impressed at your sliding table design, I have been considering making a similar sliding table for my Contractors table saw on similar lines, at present the sliding table is based on a single swing arm and although t it works quite well it is limited on the length of the travel of the table. After a certain point of travel the table will drop or droop, hence this does not allow the use of the full extent of the guide rail.
To save me time in working out the geometrics of the operation I was wondering if you would not mind in being able to supply some dimensions on the width of each gate of the swing arms and particular in relation to the pivot points and also the dimension of the sliding table itself and to the point of suspension . In my case I would be looking at a scaled down version to handle panels say about 700 x 900.
Another question is what would be your opinion on the effect to the operation if the swing gates of the sliding table if they were mounted towards the front of the stand and not to the rear as on your set up, I realise that because of the tilt handle on the LH side towards the front of your unit this limits where you could have mounted the main pivot point anyway.
Your help would be much appreciated.
Regards,
Mac

I am quite impressed at your sliding table design

Thanks Mac

I was wondering if you would not mind in being able to supply some dimensions on the width of each gate of the swing arms and particular in relation to the pivot points and also the dimension of the sliding table itself and to the point of suspension .

Trying to apply my dimensions to another saw is most likely not going to work very well, if at all. You're going to have to do some scaled diagrams to work this out for your particular saw. It should only take a few minutes to do.

what would be your opinion on the effect to the operation if the swing gates of the sliding table if they were mounted towards the front of the stand

I reckon it would probably be a pain in the butt (knees, actually). While you're quite right about a front mounted arm potentially fouling on winder handles, you would also walk into it just about every time you did a cross cut, especially wide ones. Keeping in mind the diagrams attached are not to scale, so the actual arm locations could be different, black shows my arm and red the proposed front mount location. A front mount probably wouldnt be as bad as I first thought, but still reckon it would get in the way.

700 x 900 is relatively small = light, so you wouldnt have to make something as heavy as i did. I wanted to be able to cross cut a 25mm full sheet (1200 x 2400) if necessary and be able to do 16 mm effortlessly. The smaller table size you mention is another reason why my swing arm dimentions would be useless to you.

All the best with it.

Mick

Originally Posted by mikm

Thanks Mac

Trying to apply my dimensions to another saw is most likely not going to work very well, if at all. You're going to have to do some scaled diagrams to work this out for your particular saw. It should only take a few minutes to do.

I reckon it would probably be a pain in the butt (knees, actually). While you're quite right about a front mounted arm potentially fouling on winder handles, you would also walk into it just about every time you did a cross cut, especially wide ones. Keeping in mind the diagrams attached are not to scale, so the actual arm locations could be different, black shows my arm and red the proposed front mount location. A front mount probably wouldnt be as bad as I first thought, but still reckon it would get in the way.

700 x 900 is relatively small = light, so you wouldn't have to make something as heavy as i did. I wanted to be able to cross cut a 25mm full sheet (1200 x 2400) if necessary and be able to do 16 mm effortlessly. The smaller table size you mention is another reason why my swing arm dimentions would be useless to you.

All the best with it.

Mick

Thanks for that information, I was actually trying to get some idea of the size relationship between the 2 gates, from your sketch it indicates that the primary gate is larger than the secondary gate in width say about 2/3 for the larger and 1/3 for the smaller.
While I would have liked to have a larger sliding table to take 2400 x 1200 I just do not have the room and also I am getting a bit old in the tooth to be handling large sheets.
Recently I needed to cut up 3 sheets 2400 x 1200 x 18mm Melamine board into a range of 16 sizes, a local Furniture company who so happens to have a very large Beam Saw( computer controlled) and does the odd sheet cutting for the public if requested, he cut up the board in under 20min with actuatcy and no sign of chipping on the under side face, all for the sum of $30.00. At less than $2.00 a piece it was not worth the effort in trying to cut the sheets my self.
Regards,
Mac