Thread: C-12 or new Lithium Ion?

The Protool and Festool drills both use Centrotec, but the other attachments are not interchangeable between the brands. The primary reason for this is strength required for the increased demands of the Protool drills - the Protool attachments are built for industrial use, which the Festool are not meant for that kind of a life.

In the Protool range the additional chucks are (excluding Centrotec holder):

• Right Angle
• Socket Drive
• Keyless

As mentioned below, the Protool cordless drills accessories fit the Protool corded drill DRP 16 ET FF.

In the Festool range the additional chucks are (excluding Centrotec holder):

• Right Angle
• Eccentric
• Duo Depth
• Keyless

I saw the protool drill in the store last wednessday, and since I was a bit depressed and very tired, my ability to resist temptation was seriously undermined and I just bought it (they only had 1, the pdc 18-4 tec Li set version). (Just like women buying shoes or expensive lingerie, I tend to get tools I would normally find too expensive)
I almost got the C12 three years ago, when part of my tools got stolen from my van (impact driver, right angle drill). I only had the hammerdrill left, so I saw it as an opportunity to change brands, cause I didn't like the dewalt radio-charger. I told my dad to pick up the C12 set version, but he couldn't remember which one to get (I told him to get the 3 Ah version) but he did bring home a makita 14.4 Li-Ion impact driver, and I loved the power,low weight, led light and the belt hook.
I liked it so much that I decided not to get the C12, altough it had the cool chucks and the magnetic tray thingy, but because of the design, it wouldn't fit into a holster, it didn't have a belt hook, and I don't like the tool bungy thing festool sells for it (I tried it already for holding a caulk gun when working of a ladder). And I didn't like the way it twisted the guys' wrist, when people were demonstrating how powerful the thing is.
My dewalt 12v XRP hammerdrill died a few months ago, it was pretty heavy with the all metal gear box, but it had held up way longer than the previous drills I owned, and it didn't suffer the runout issues that the previous 18 and 12 V dewalt pre-xrp hammerdrills showed. I als liked the 3rd gear on the xrp, but when used it would drain the batteries almost instantly.
I have been using a regular 2speed dewalt drill/driver I bought about 2 years ago, just because it was cheaper to buy that at the time than just getting 2 new XR2 batteries. But for driving screws I always use my 14.4 makita impact driver, and for a bit more intensive drilling I get the 1000W corded makita. But sometimes I can't, for instance drilling with watercooled diamant drills in hard tile, in those cases I end up with 2 chargers and 4 batteries lying around for just a couple off holes.
Anyway, everytime I get in a situation I have to get the corded, or the extra carger and batteries I think I should just get another drill, I allready have an extra battery for the 14.4 makita (we have 2 impacts, and 5 batteries; (one was broken, bought another, then got a warranty replacement), but I read there were issues with the gearbox off their regular cordless drills, and one off the chargers is making the dreaded noise, and the chargers cost over 200 € to replace...
So then I hesitated and wanted to get a panasonic, they had a special offer a couple of months ago, where you got the drill/driver with a third battery, and a discount price for another panasonic cordless without battery/charger, but I couldn't decide which one to get. (I was leaning toward the multidrill, but that had not enough rpm in drill mode; or the pneumatic hammerdrill, or...) but when I found out, it was the last day of that deal, so I gave it a pass...
Back to the protool:
I got it after work, and when I was charging the batteries and playing with it a bit I had a bit of buyer's remorse.It was after all a lot of money, for a bulky heavy drill (compared to the makita impact, but comparable to the 18V makita li-ion hammerdril), and it didn't have one of those handy led-lights.
But the next day I got to try it... We had to drill a bunch of holes in steel beams, so I tried te protool instead of the corded drill first, it was able to drill over 20 6mm holes in 10 mm thick steel at max speed (yes, the 3800 rpm, which is more than the corded drill) before it beeped once to say the battery needed charging...(I did use cutting lubricant, and I tried it at the 3rd setting aswell, but the drillbit could take the higher setting without burning, and the speed increase was significant). (BTW I already did some testing with 18 mm spiral bits in scrap wood with the same battery, it went pretty well, but it didn't have enough torque on the max speed (duh))
I also driven a few screws with a centrotec bit, and I actually liked the torque setting with the beep thing. It doesn't have the drill-mode swith the new festool drills will have,so you have to dial the drillmode with the torquesetting switch, but it does have a similar switch to choose between drilling/screwdriving and hammerdrill mode, and when the hammerdrill mode isn't selected, it locks the spindle in the forward position, so screwing is less ackward than with another hammerdrill/driver, where you have to push in the travel for the hammerstroke.
The systainer it comes in is pretty cool too, it has storage space for bits in the lid, to fit the inlays for drill s, bits etc, and another space for a bigger set they sell underneath the charger. And all the accesories have their own place in the systainer. I heard the new festool drills will not come in such a systainer. (And they won't have the retractable beltclip)
The makita's also come in a case with storage space in the lid, but it broke on one of the cases and you can't order the lid seperately (they even said they couldn't order the entire empty case separately); and with the systainers you can easily order a seperate clip or hinge when something breaks or gets lost.
There's a festool demonstration at one of the toolstores the 23rd, so I'll wait with ordering the centrotec stuff I want till then. I'm hoping they'll have centrotec spade bits planned (can't find them on the site), I tried using the ones with the hex shaft straight into the spindle, but they're to wobbly.
Sorry for the long post, but I'm a bit of a sicko when it comes to tools and I guess I needed to vent

so are you happy with the drill ????
im thinking of getting one what sort of battery life doing normal stuff like putting cabinets together??

bryan

Well, it was an impulse buy, but I do like it. I haven't really put it through it's paces yet. I only used it the one day drilling in steel, and driving a few screws on Thursday. (I let our helper finish drilling the rest of the holes with the corded drill, don't trust him with my new toys) Friday it was raining all day here. Today I used my impact driver, because I only needed to drive screws (5x80mm), I could have used the new drill, but it is half a kilo heavier, I might give it a try tomorrow.
(We are framing an overhang for a concrete flat roof, the overhang is cantilevered underneath a steal L beam, (hence the drilling, to attach the wood) ancored to the concrete (poured against it with ancors welded on) and resting on the outside brick).
When the overhang is finished I'll be hanging the exterior doors, where it will be used a lot, but it's a pretty big house so that probably won't be till next week.

Judging by the drilling I did, batterylife when just drilling at normal speeds or driving screws will probably be pretty good.
I do like the drill for it's nice extra features like the tec motor, the comfortable auxiliary handle, the right angle chuck (which would have made some tricky jobs in the past a piece of cake;I do have a bosch I-driver, but it doesn't have a regular chuck for drilling, and spins at low rpm) the centrotec system (I only have the Posidrive and Torx bits that came with the drill at the moment), the magnetic bit storage just above the battery and the way the hammerfunction isn't annoying when not in use. I also like the organisation the systainer gives, with my other drills it's always a puzzle to get everything back in, I even had a couple of bitboxes velcro'd to the lid in strategic places, so it would just close )
BUT it is kind of heavy, especially compared to my impact driver, so I will grab for that one first for just driving screws. (I weighed the drills on the kitchen scale, the makita came in at just below 1500g, the protool with centrotec just below 2000g, and with the keyless chuck at 2150. It's not that heavy considering other hammerdrills with metal 3 speed gearboxes, the same as the makita 18 litheon; and probably considerably lighter than my old 12V xrp (I threw it away, so couldn't check, I did save the keyless chuck, which now sits on a sds adapter).

The manual states that the hammerdrill function is only for occasional use; that was my intention anyway, but the statement doesn't evoke a lot of confidence ( I tried it for a couple of holes and it makes A LOT of noise at high rpms, no surprise, but so much it hurts you ears when not wearing hearing-protection). Another point of concern is that the manual states the belt clip is only for short time use; again it makes me worry a bit about the durability.

We interrupt this programme to bring you a short message.

After researching my needs more carefully (i.e., for what and where do I use a drill/driver the most), I have ordered the C-12 kit with the extra chucks. I will likely add an impact driver for special uses, but the drill I believe will better serve my everyday needs.

Thank you for all the input.

We now return you to the programme already in progress.

Bob, good choice and sorry for the thread-hijack.

Originally Posted by Bryan1982

so are you happy with the drill ????
im thinking of getting one what sort of battery life doing normal stuff like putting cabinets together??

bryan

Please ignore my previous post, I'm blaming my rambling on lack of sleep .

I'll try this again, a bit more concise: Yes, I'm happy with it.
Battery life is good,but not absolutely amazing, we changed it after 4 to 5 hours of use.

When actually using it the weight isn't an issue, I do have a problem though, my dad likes it now too. He broke a few screws with his impact driver, and he now appreciates the electronic torque thing.

Originally Posted by Frank-Jan

Bob, good choice and sorry for the thread-hijack..

An un-hijacked thread is a sorry thread indeed. No worries.

Thread Hijack now that is what I am talking about
Forums are all about peoples opinions and experiences, and it is good to belong to one about a subject that I am really passionate about and it is even better to realize that I am not the only really sick slightly disturbed/addicted tool junkie on the planet.
Frank-jan read every word of your post there is some good info in there.
Just to add a little more.
I have had impact drivers for almost 8 years dating back to the very first release of the makita 12 volt 3ah nickel metal hydride here in the NZ. I saw them at a demo and brought one on the spot. They are great as they require very little pressure to put almost any screw in and set it to a depth accurately with little or no pre drilling.
We use them for everything down to screw our concrete formwork together with Hex head screws etc. As you can take them out and use them on the next job
The thing here is I have started picking up the C12 more and more just because of the share versatility of it. I have all four chucks which means it can do almost any job except the really big auger jobs at which point I will get out a corded drill.
the thing which makes this drill amazing is the electronic clutch it enables you to set a screw to a very precise depth. Finesse is the best word to describe this tool and most Festool gear that i own and have used.
There gear is precise and consistently does the job well.
So my impact driver might just sit there for a while until someone makes a better al-rounder

Well, the C-12 arrived and after firing it in anger a few times I am chuffed that it is everything I hoped it would be. Light, balanced, powerful, blah blah.

The most telling praise came from SWMBO. When I showed it to her she handled it a bit and announced "This is MY drill." Yer gotta love a wife like that!

Originally Posted by Honorary Bloke

Well, the C-12 arrived and after firing it in anger a few times I am chuffed that it is everything I hoped it would be. Light, balanced, powerful, blah blah.

The most telling praise came from SWMBO. When I showed it to her she handled it a bit and announced "This is MY drill." Yer gotta love a wife like that!

That's right Bob "what's yours, is her's and what's her's, is her's ".......life is not fair!

Good choice, I love the C12 clutch system, but prefer the TDK ergonomics, so I have both.

I am surprised that Festool haven't brought out an impact driver.

Zelk