Thread: Advice on festool

Originally Posted by Xanthorrhoeas

I have been told that I would be better off with the big Triton and a Kreg table - much cheaper. But then others talk about run-out and accuracy issues. What is your opinion (I know that you are a Festool dealer so you may not want to answer that one)? I won't say that money is no issue - it is always an issue in life - but I am prepared to pay for accuracy and ease of use..

That's an easy question to answer. The Festool routers are far better for accuracy, functionality, and reliability. I also have a Triton router (in the cupboard), here is a picture of the Triton.

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Click to expand.

Originally Posted by Xanthorrhoeas

I am also taking into consideration that I have read that the Festools will auto switch the Festool vacs so that would help reduce workshop noise if I buy one of those too (though that might just have to wait a while).

The Festool extractor takes care of the auto on/off, so just about any power tools can be plugged into the extractor and switching it on/off will also switch the extractor on/off.

Thanks very much. Your advice is much appreciated.

Originally Posted by beer is good

I am thinking about a couple of Festool purchases but their website is not very clear on the different models and what they do.

I am contemplating a Rotex RO 90 sander, and the PS 300Trion jigsaw.

Has anyone bought or used either, or are there better models?

I will be using them for general furniture making and I don't anticipate any hard building work.

Thanks,

You haven't really stated your intended uses of the tools, so it's a little difficult to make specific recommendations. Nevertheless, I'll give you my general opinions of the tools.

The small Rotex sander is a gem. It's a generalist, in that it will rough sand, fine sand and get into corners like no other sander can. It's expensive, but a worthwhile investment as it's sheer versatility is unequalled. The expense is even greater than anticipated, however as you absolutely must couple it to a shop-vac (preferably automatically switching) to fully uitilise and realise it's capabilities. As a package, a Midi-size Festool vac may be available with the sander purchase at a reasonable discount. Nevertheless, I would recommend purchase of a larger model (say a CT26) with long-life reuseable filters and bag as a better long term investment, as Festool consumables, especially vac bags, are ludicrously expensive. You should be able to get a CT26, Long life filter and bag and the RO90DX for under 2 grand.

The little sander is not without it's faults, however. Even on the Rotary position, and with the coarsest papers, it's much slower than its bigger brethren. This can be an advantage in some circumstances. I've found the RO150 to be too big and powerful to safely use on vertical surfaces (weatherboards) up a ladder. It's just too much sander to try to use one handed! The RO90 performs better in these circumstances.

On the Eccentric setting, it's not as smooth as others, especially Festool's dedicated Random orbits. As a delta sander, it's a bit big and top heavy in comparison to smaller delta sanders. This lack of balance means that the sander can be a bit of a handful in all 3 settings sometimes. It's bulk also makes it less able to reach in between, say stair treads. Metabo has a beautiful little 80mm ROS (the SXE400 - I have 3) which is a delight to use and the last word in balance. It is, however, severely limited in its applications by having only a limited range of abrasives available, with their "webrax" type of mesh tending to delaminate from its velcro loop backing! But for fine, delicate and curved work it's unequalled. Festool's Deltex sander also feels better in the hand and in use than the RO90.

But it's all about compromise. As a package the RO90 is remarkably versatile nonetheless, and even at it's (exhorbitant) price represents remarkable value for money, effectively giving you three sanders for the price of two.

I can't recommend the Trion jigsaw. I have found the saw to be a frustrating, poorly designed and performing saw. You could buy a much better saw for your money. For starters, the lower ceramic blade guidance mechanism is a slow and frustrating mechanism that is an absolute pain to adjust manually. I never seem to be able to get it "just right" which inevitably leads to either premature blade overheating and "burnout" of both the blade's temper and my own or excessive blade wander. My old Bosch GST135 achieves this same guide adjustment process at the push of a button!

It also seems a bit too lightly constructed to trust for heavy duty work. I cut a lot of metal, both steel and aluminium, and feel that the Trion just can't cope with this work. The blade release lever, for instance, is plastic (as is the levers on many saws), which wouldn't survive a drop from benchtop height, let alone from off a ladder. I use an old Metabo model for site work.

The design is quite old now, and lacks the "nice to have" features of more modern designs. These include proper sawdust/swarf blowers, LED lighting & toolless soleplate tilting. None of these features are essential, but are nevetheless useful, and at the price should all be inclusive.

Festool's jigsaw designers are somewhat "eccentric", to say the least. The latest design is even worse, in my opinion. Why would you design a jigsaw without a tilting soleplate? What were they thinking? Sure, you can buy an accessory, tilting soleplate, but it doesn't fit into the tool's systainer, and consequently would be left behind or even lost at the critical time it was occasionally needed. In fairness, the accessory soleplate seems to work wonderfully well at bevelling edges, but why not include a similar toolless tilt mechanism that every other truly professional jigsaw manages to? I notice that even the hyper expensive super heavy duty Mafell Cuprex jigsaw has the same stupid setup. Must be something in the German water.... It reeks to me of a design by committee: you know the old story about the camel being a horse designed by a committee. I suppose it seemed like a good idea at the time, or maybe even cost-cutting!

My own Trion, and all my older jigsaws are the bodygrip type. I always thought this to be a superior design, as my hand grips the tool closer to the blade, aiding balance. Having finally tried and having purchased a modern bow handled saw, however, I now see the error of my ways. A bow handle allows much greater pressure AND control of the saw to be applied. In addition, after presetting the top speed on the thumbwheel you can further feather the speed from a crawl to flat-out using the trigger alone. This has revolutionised my curve cutting ability and smoothness, as I can slow down the saw in an instant when going into tight curves and when plunging into cuts.

It just makes sense when you try it. Apparently the bodygrip saws are primarily designed for upside down cutting from beneath the workpiece. I've tried to do this, and while it does have some merit in there being less dust and less likelihood of chipping and splintering delicate surfaces of laminates etc. it just feels stupidly cack-handed to me! I use an anti-splinter insert instead.

I really like the look of the newer models from Bosch (GST140BCE) and Metabo (STEB140Plus). The Bosch has a particularly clever swivelling dust spout. This makes it the first jigsaw in history to actually have a useable (and useful) dust extraction facility. All other fixed spouts usually have you tying yourself up in knots with the vacuum hose! If you still insist on a bodygrip model then I'd go the Metabo, as it has by far the smallest circumference of grip, meaning that you can maintain a much safer grip on the tool even when using the thing upside down!

The Metabo also comes with an array of different soleplates for a wide range of delicate and not so delicate surfaces. As a sparkie, I'm often faced with overhead cutouts for fans, lights and tastics in delicate painted and varnished surfaces, or even steel or cement board and appreciate the thought that has gone into this. Metabo also offer the first cordless jigsaw worthy of the name, with the same design, power & performance (140mm in wood) to their biggest corded version (STA18LTX140), and with the longevity of 5.2 ah batteries with a 3 year warranty on BOTH tool and batteries/charger.

In summary, the best bow handled tool currently is the Bosch, the best bodygrip is the Metabo in my opinion, in either corded or cordless variants.

I think you can't beat Festool for sanders and routers (+ the domino) and I second Ratty's opinion on the jigsaws - you will find a better and cheaper jigsaw from Bosch.

Thanks for your info on the sander and jigsaw, and apologies for the delay in replying - I have been overseas for six weeks. I have deleted the jigsaw from my Xmas list - can't justify the cost, but the sander is still in the game. I think the RO 90 will satisfy my needs but a bit more head scratching is called for.

dont buy the of1400, the handle arrangement will drive you nuts. And now reading there is a problem with the off center copy ring, its really a sore point with me now. I think money best saved would to be a Bosch or Metabo router.

i was really after a quality router with excellent dust extraction that would be accurate and last, and i think i got caught up in the youtube reviews and online info without really taking a better look at the actual day to day workings of it.

I had my OF1400 set correctly by Tooltechnic for the copy ring. I know it should be correct out of the box. It need not be a sore point.
The dust collection on the OF1400 is second only to the OF2200. All other routers do not come close in that regard.
The handle arrangement does take some getting used to, but it is minor. After a few uses one is completely familiar with it.
But as they say - each one to their own.
Regards
Les