Thread: Domino coming to the US

Rob,
I’ve been sitting here for the past three hours now trying to figure out how to respond to you. I had assumed that Lignum’s original posting was joking and tongue-in-cheek, but yours clearly is not. This troubles me greatly because you are asking for something that is not possible.

This is not a magazine article, or a white paper, or even what Jerry Work calls a manual. This is the actual Owner’s Manual for a tool. You won’t find acknowledgements in an owner’s manual, regardless what the contribution was. (Go look at your other tool manuals.)

I asked this forum for ideas regarding content. However, there is a big difference between saying, “show us how to make larger tenons” versus, “Here is the procedure for making larger tenons.” Even if this was a magazine article, that is not the kind of information that could or would be acknowledged (Yes, I used to be a woodworking magazine editor).

The only direct content from this web site that “might” make it into the manual, is the PVC tubing idea that I shared with you. Even the Festool product engineers were intrigued by this idea, yet I gave it to this forum without strings or conditions.

Yeah, I was going to ask if any of the users here wanted to review an advanced copy of the manual, but I can’t do this now; not if it would come with strings or resentment.

Hi PTM,

A little terse I was. Sorry. No strings attached. The overall message was could you point out to Festo Germany that we gave a significant input to methods of instrument use and therefore we may have valid arguments for adaptations of the Domino. But you're saying thats not possible. I tought this was a two way street.
I expected that as a result of my post that further contact would be extremely limited, so what else is new. You have no Domino users in the US, so your comprehensive manual must have come from somewhere.
Just a reminder, that if you had not seen this forum and what I in particular was doing in trying to cut shallower mortises, the collar probably wouldn't exist.
I'm really sick of people not acknowledging my work and "intellectual property", so i think I'll just keep m'self to m'self.

Without Prejudice

Flowboy

Y'know, I think we are so used to Owner's (bugr, what's the possessive here) Manuals that are either so scampy as to be useless or written in prose that makes no sense that we just put the goddam thing together and get on with it. This approach spans the spectrum from the axe to the woodworking machine to the computer. I am not sure if it applies to a 747... perhaps not - perhaps wisely.A few "white papers" on use might be useful. Perhaps Dr Festool GmBH might give thought to providing space for these.... und, credits could be given to each... This device is not your average powertool. It is expensive and highly regarded. The manufacturer could encourage participation or could take "distant" stance. I guess it is a strategic marketing issue finally....In the festive spirit of course.... excusez-moi for intruding

The best manual by far that i have come across is the one for West System epoxy. Its sensational. It sets the standard that would be very hard to beat. The "older" Garret Wade cattledogs were also sensational. Shame the new ones are very ordinary.

I have to say that PTM has a point. I don't think it is appropriate to make acknowledgements in an owner's manual. I was quite happy to provide what imput I could without expecting acknowledgement.

Rocker

Originally Posted by Flowboy

A little terse I was. Sorry. No strings attached. The overall message was could you point out to Festo Germany that we gave a significant input to methods of instrument use and therefore we may have valid arguments for adaptations of the Domino.

Rocker, this says nothing about listing names or sources in the manual. If you read the original document the above was also my intention, being that we (Austalian and NZ woodworkers) have a very low profile in Festo's eyes. Even TT admit this. I was hoping that PTM may be able to help change this, but that doesn't appear possible. Seems a shame.
On the whole I am pleased to share information, but I object when other people make money from it without recognition of their source at least to those reviewing the work. Are you happy with people buying your CDs and copying them for others without a royalty being paid?
I don't mean to be rude or disrespectful, but Intellectual Property and its theft are issues I become very heated about. :mad:

Regards

Rob

Originally Posted by Flowboy

I'm really sick of people not acknowledging my work and "intellectual property", so i think I'll just keep m'self to m'self.

Rob you raise a very interesting point. Where dose our intellectual copyright sit in relation to posting on this forum?

Does a moderator know the answer?

I stopped posting Domino jigs and ideas a while ago because this is a tool that will take of big time soon as it hits the States and now that im realy getting into the swing of it, im very reluctant to share my new jigs and templates because of this very reason.

Flowboy,

I am inclined to follow Ecclesiastes, and 'cast my bread upon the waters' on the premise that 'it will return to me after many days'. If I have some material that I feel is worth publishing, I first try to find a publisher, but, if unsuccessful, I am happy to post it here, in which case the information is then in the public domain. When PTM asked for ideas, he gave no undertaking to make acknowledgement, and so I feel it is unreasonable to demand it after the fact. Perhaps it might be appropriate for him to make a general acknowledgement that he received some imput from members of this Forum, but it would be overkill to expect individuals to be acknowledged for their particular suggestions. As PTM pointed out, he is not writing a scientific treatise, but an owners' manual; and the suggestions we gave him were not rocket science. I feel that if people have ideas that they feel are of commercial value, then they should seek a publisher to pay them. But ideas posted here are fair game, as far as I am concerned. However, I don't want to get into an acrimonious dispute about this, and I shall not post again on this topic

Rocker

Originally Posted by Lignum

Rob you raise a very interesting point. Where dose our intellectual copyright sit in relation to posting on this forum?

Does a moderator know the answer?

I stopped posting Domino jigs and ideas a while ago because this is a tool that will take of big time soon as it hits the States and now that im realy getting into the swing of it, im very reluctant to share my new jigs and templates because of this very reason.

This probably requires an answer from someone versed in copyright law rather than a moderator or even perhaps UBeaut himself.

If you use a work computer to develop something of worth then the company owning your time and the equipment can claim it.

If you use these forums to develop an idea or to post a pre-existing idea you may be surrendering your copyright and acknowledging it as public domain.

Whichever is the case, I suggest that you do not post anything you think you want to take to market and claim intellectual property over, at least until it is cleared up. I'll bring this thread to the attention of the owner to see whether he wishes to add anything.

The rules only state "You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by this BB."

Then theirs the other way, when someone blatantly copys someone elses design to about 95% (which is ok if credit is given) and very briefly acknowleges the originals existance in the early stages, but is cunning enough to never actualy say it was his design whilst sitting back accepting the acolades on how much of a terrific design he has come up with. Now thats big time wrong.

Originally Posted by Flowboy

On the whole I am pleased to share information, but I object when other people make money from it without recognition of their source at least to those reviewing the work.

Rob,
You are making a rather grandiose assumption here, that the manual is chock-full of stolen ideas from this forum. I didn’t come here to steal anyone’s ideas, nor have I used any.

I came here to see what kinds of problems users were having with their tool so I could educate others to avoid those problems. A “problem” is not intellectual property, but it could be argued that a “solution” could be. However, the only two “problems” presented on this site that are remotely discussed in the manual are ones where I found them intriguing and I came up with the solution after no one else could.

I greatly resent the implication that I have stolen anything from you or anyone else on this forum. What is worse is that this is an accusation you have levied without ever seeing the content of the manual, or even asking what the content was. You made an incorrect assumption, and have now stirred the pot to a frenzy on that assumption.

By the way, you keep referring to reviewing the manual. No one has even seen this manual yet, not even Festool, and I have not asked anyone on this site to review it.

I asked in the spirit of mutual cooperation that you raise our profile in front of Festo Germany. You have refused.
You are saying now that you gained no benefit from this forum and I frankly don't believe that.
You say "you keep referring to reviewing the manual". Can you show me exactly where?

Don't have anything more to add to this discussion, so I'll do a Rocker and opt out. Have fun.

Flowboy.

Hi Lignum,

I agree with Groggy. This is for the Patent lawyers. In the interim, I think it safer to keep any new jigs, modes of operation etc to yourself. This forum is gaining a large international following and will gain even more after the release of the Domino in the US. Most come here for honest. frank assistance and join in the banter, but its too easy for someone in Europe or the US to take an idea, patent it and sell it. :mad: 1% of the US market could well make you a millionaire.
Unfortunately this is not in the spirit of this forum, situated s it is in a far corner of the world where we've only just learned to peel Bananas, but there you are. I think I'll be keeping my ideas to myself, or sharing with people I trust.

Regards

Rob

When I bought my combination planer/thicknesser from Carbatec it came with a european two horizontal round pin power plug and a very poorly translated to Engrish operators manual.

I must confess it would have been a great asset if there was not only a properly translated manual, but one with real useful suggestions and recommendations made by people who have used this device.

The diversity of the Domino obviously makes it a candidate for all sorts of tips and jigs as mentioned and this would make a great book in it's own right. But for sure a manual that just gives good tips on how to use it and what to be careful of would also be very beneficial to the operator bearing in mind the new acquirer will also need the basic procedures as well and useful tips.

I also think it would be of great benefit if the suggestions of how this machine can be improved (ie pin settings) as in operation made it's way back to the R&D division for consideration to make the next one better (heck Triton do this all the time and welcome the feedback)