Thread: Domino techniques

I am not sure if I am following your requirement, but if you mean a simple frame with four butt-joints (not mitres) then its easy. Eg. Using the small stock jig (ZA-DF 500) with the left tab in position mortice your end grain, then pop that tab up and pop the right tab down and mortice your side grain - resting the right tab on the end edge of the workpiece.

Or am I missing something?

Of course this is where ensuring your cutter is centred between the two tabs is important when checking the Dominos set-up before use. But you said you had already checked that and or adjusted the machine's tabs.

Ian,

I'm no three-striper with the Domino but:

You have made a good buy. I don't quite recognise the difference with the updated model. I guess I have the old.
I use pencil marks (shame) and use a 'fence' to rest the piece against. Everything is clamped and if it's a narrow stick and i'm mortising the end, I use another narrow stick to keep the machine level.
This is not a sales pitch but the Dom has worked for me on big stuff like the mortises on a QS bed and little stuff like repairs to old (thin) reconditioned chairs that could not have had a real mortise and tenon joint. The guys at the Mens Shed give me an item every now and then because the joints are too fiddly to do in the traditional way.
I'm sure there are DVDs around and demos on this Forum.
The experts will follow me with the real advice.
Don't despair. You have a winner there in that machine.
Hope you bought the extra cutters!
Graham

Thanks for the quick response gents.

NT900 - I'm confused (so that may make both of us) by your reference to part - small stock jig (ZA-DF 500). As near as I can work out the small part jig is LA-DF 500 and it doesn't have tabs - it does have two fences though, which are moveable but not RE-moveable, in spite of what my "expert" may have said.
On the other hand there is the a thing which I presume is an original part rather than an accessory called a side stop which does have two drop down spacers. Yes, I could use that I suppose, but with small stock when morticing the end there is little contact with the material, so I would think it would be more dificult to keep the machine oriented accurately.
It's not that I can't see a way to do what I want, I just need to find out the most accurate way. Right now I could just use pencil marks or maybe just make the mortice wider.

Carry- yeah, I lashed out and went the full monty - and I don't doubt it's a good machine. I can readily see how the bigger the stock the easier it is, and I've no doubt with a bit of fiddling I could get it to deal with small stock but I would hope there's a recommended method to do this

Originally Posted by Ian Smith

Thanks for the quick response gents.

NT900 - I'm confused (so that may make both of us) by your reference to part - small stock jig (ZA-DF 500). As near as I can work out the small part jig is LA-DF 500 and it doesn't have tabs - it does have two fences though, which are moveable but not RE-moveable, in spite of what my "expert" may have said.
On the other hand there is the a thing which I presume is an original part rather than an accessory called a side stop which does have two drop down spacers. Yes, I could use that I suppose, but with small stock when morticing the end there is little contact with the material, so I would think it would be more dificult to keep the machine oriented accurately.
It's not that I can't see a way to do what I want, I just need to find out the most accurate way. Right now I could just use pencil marks or maybe just make the mortice wider.

Carry- yeah, I lashed out and went the full monty - and I don't doubt it's a good machine. I can readily see how the bigger the stock the easier it is, and I've no doubt with a bit of fiddling I could get it to deal with small stock but I would hope there's a recommended method to do this

Hi Ian,

Actually between us we have confused things a bit. I now realise when you said 'small stock jig' you meant this one, the LA-DF500.


But I thought you meant this one, the ZA-DF500.


The LA-DF500 is meant to use on end grain only. Removing half of it to do side grain is not what is intended for that jig. As you already worked out.

The ZA-DF500 is for making end grain and side grain joints on timber between 22 and 70mm in width. This is the one I meant in my last post. When I mentioned 'tabs' I meant the flip out thingies (now shown in the above image as they are in their little recesses in that image).

So flip out one tab - do the end grain with the tab rested against one side of the workpiece. Then flip the tab back into its recess. For the side grain, flip out the opposite tab and rest that against the side of the workpiece. When teh two pieces are brought together the mortice should be in the perfect position. No need to make wide mortices, the smallest width mortice should be just fine and give a great fit and aligned joint.

Did that make sense? I feel like I'm trying with extra-fat fingers tonight.

As for accuracy, this jig is perfectly accurate.

Anthony,
Yep, you're spot on
I didn't know the part number for the gizmo you labelled ZA-DF500 as it appears as though now it's included with the machine and just gets a number in the exploded view.

So I guess my only question now is how do you keep the work square to the machine?
I guess I just clamp a piece to the away side flush with the end for extra support as Carry Pine suggested

Thank you both

Ian

Whilst the domino is pretty easy to use, it can take a bit of working out for some jobs.

Oft times you will find that it will take a combination of techniques in order to get a job done, the only thing I can say is that it does get easier with experience.

This is no hype, nor is it a sales pitch, but no other tool has changed the way I build things as much as the domino, in fact I would be lost without it now.

So bear with it, you will look back in 12 months and thank yourself.

Originally Posted by Ian Smith

The latest incarnation of the tool has replaced the "Locating Pins" with "Latch Stops".
I don't know whether this is a good move or not, but I guess you'd have to credit the Festool R&D mob with knowing their stuff.

This was done to get around a patent dispute with Lamello, who have a patent on the registration system for their biscuit joiners. There was some spin about it being better, but I have only used the old system, so can not comment.

Originally Posted by Ian Smith

Which brings me to my biggest gripe - the bloody manual!
Of course you get the usual exploded view with every part numbered and descibed in 35 different languages, and the obligatory safety instructions also in 35 languages, how to turn it on turn it off, change the bit, once again a multilingual document.
BUT ..... nowhere is there anywhere telling me how to actually use the thing.

For others here is the link to the Getting the most from the Domino - a good read.

For Festoolians with other products, this link has supplementary manulas for several other tools.

Always a problem with Festool. It REALLY, REALLY lets their products down. As you have found, Festool in the USA have recognised this & provide some great manuals by people like Jerry Work on their website. However Festool market their products as a system, but never explain how the system works. There are hundreds of little attachments and doo-hickies (technical term) in the cattledog, but no explanation about what they are used for, when to use them etc. They would sell a whole lot more if the system & accessories were REALLY explained (I venture to suggest they could easily double their sales). Triton had the right idea when they set up their demonstrator network. The Germans are great engineers, but I have yet to see much evidence that they understand marketing well. Festool USA seems to be changing that a bit.

Originally Posted by Ian Smith

What I would like to know is how best to join small stock - say 50 x 19 to create a frame
The small stock jig that is sold by Festool is OK for morticing the ends of the stock but how do you accurately locate the corresponding mortice in the side of the piece the first one is going to butt jointed to, to form a corner?

You need to get the 4mm Domino kit with - better than buying it alone! The additional stop has some flip-downs that let you register to smaller stock - see here - Anthony will confirm, but I don't think you get this stop guide with the new machine.

You could go all out & buy the Multi Position Guide Stop from the USA - see here I am about to order one.

I use the window with the metric marks for stock similar to the sizes you are using. If your using 50x19, its only logical to line up the edge of the 50x19 to the 25mm line and away you go. Its not really all that hard as you make it out to be.

And if your wondering why the theres no 19mm height setting? There doesnt need to be one, just use the 20mm setting (which will center the cutter at 10mm) and always register your timber from the good face.

Cruzi, thank you for the encouragement.
I've seen enough comments on this forum to convince me of the virtues of the Domino so you don't need to sell me on that, but as a weekend warrior who doesn't always have a project on the go, it's sometimes 3-4 weeks between drinks, and experience is a long time coming.
No doubt, if you are using the thing most days of the week then the "do's" and "don't's" become obvious fairly quickly. It's just that if the best way to perform a task was made available, and the Triton DVD is a good example, then time is saved and the learning curve is less steep, and more enjoyable/satisfying for the part-timer.

RossM - The kit I bought had the 4mm bit and the fence you refer to -ZA-DF500 - see nt900's post - seemed be a default inclusion - there was moulded space for it in the fancy box
I've seen the Multi Position Guide Stop you refer to, but after paying out so much for the kit it goes against the grain to buy a third party add-on so soon and in any event, it doesn't address my initial concern of accurately aligning the end grain mortice.

KorDes, It's not that I think it's hard to do - I've already done a couple of practice ones.
It's just that I am concerned about correct alignment in terms of keeping narrow stock vertical to the machine, but I think I think Carry Pines suggestion of a piece clamped to the away side of the piece to increase the surface area in contact with the machine is the approach I'll use for the moment - maybe I'll get confident enough to do away with it in time.

Thank you all for your willing assistance

Ian

If you are looking for more info on using the Domino - DON'T buy the 'How to' book published by Schaefer - it is just a slightly expanded version of the Festo pamphlet - most of the book is actually about hooking up Festo vacuums & their accessories.

Waste of money, bought on from Amazon & should have asked for a refund.

Thanks bsrlee, yeah read about that in my travels too - I think it may have been on the festool forum - not sure.
Well got to mow the yard and then it's down to the shed to cuddlle up next to my new toy


Ian

Originally Posted by Ian Smith

Which brings me to my biggest gripe - the bloody manual!

BUT ..... nowhere is there anywhere telling me how to actually use the thing.

A bit of trolling around the web unearths a few documents from the Festool site - a supplementary Manual and a "getting the best out of" by what appears to be third parties, but that's about it.

Even though I am not a Festool employee, that is not a 3rd party manual. It is commissioned and owned by Festool-USA. It is called a "Supplemental" manual only because it did not go through the UL submission process at the time the tool was released in North America. As for adjusting and calibrating your Domino, the Supplemental manual does cover the process and it has become the official process.

Originally Posted by Ian Smith

I've seen the Multi Position Guide Stop you refer to, but after paying out so much for the kit it goes against the grain to buy a third party add-on so soon and in any event, it doesn't address my initial concern of accurately aligning the end grain mortice.

In this case, you are correct that this is a 3rd party add-on. However, because it was developed by the same guy that wrote the manual (me), it is pretty safe that it performs as advertised, if I don't say so myself. I have shipped a few of these to Australia.

PTM,

Originally Posted by Powertoolman

Even though I am not a Festool employee, that is not a 3rd party manual. It is commissioned and owned by Festool-USA. It is called a "Supplemental" manual only because it did not go through the UL submission process at the time the tool was released in North America. As for adjusting and calibrating your Domino, the Supplemental manual does cover the process and it has become the official process.

I don't really give a rats who wrote the "supplementary" manual. My point was that any usefull information it may contain, wasn't included with the tool at the time of purchase, and I had to go looking for it.
For the record, the supplementary manual does provide a more detailed overview of the tool and it's potential uses, however it would seem that the very fact that it had to be produced in the first place indicates that RossM's criticism is a valid one

I don't recall having a shot at the calibration process which, by the way, does get a cryptic mention in the original manual. My point was that the necessary tool, in this case a 2mmm allen key, to achieve this was not provided.

Originally Posted by Powertoolman

In this case, you are correct that this is a 3rd party add-on. However, because it was developed by the same guy that wrote the manual (me), it is pretty safe that it performs as advertised, if I don't say so myself. I have shipped a few of these to Australia.

I don't recall questioning the accuracy or otherwise of the third party add-on.
My point was that, after spending a significant sum purchasing the tool and all it's available accessories, it was very unlikely I would be rushing out to spend even more on this add-on.
What I did say was that I could not see how this add-on would help me solve my original problem which, to reiterate, was how to accurately align the end-grain mortice of narrow work pieces.

I have since spent some shed time and satisfied myself that, for my immediate needs at least, the part identified by nt900 as ZA-DF500 will do the trick


Ian

Originally Posted by Powertoolman

In this case, you are correct that this is a 3rd party add-on. However, because it was developed by the same guy that wrote the manual (me), it is pretty safe that it performs as advertised, if I don't say so myself. I have shipped a few of these to Australia.

Im still hanging out for one of the regular Domi users to post a review here so we can assess if its as good as reported on FOG. Its got me very curious.