Thread: How good is Festool Dust Collection

TT, Festool is good as a system. So is Mirka, which may actually be better, and at the same price or less.

I have a Festool CT26E vacuum cleaner, which is used with a old (very old) Festo (forerunner of the Festool RO150/3). It still does a good job and, although it is heavier, shares the same multi-holed sanding pad. I also have a Mirka Ceros, which is fantastic, light as a feature, and leaves the Festo for dead. One reason is the mult-multi hole pad which is designed with the Mirka Abranet mesh in mind. This allows for maximum dust removal. Sanding plaster is a lot more demanding than wood with regards to dust. The mesh can be used with other sanders, and you should give it a go on your sander first before you lash out any money. It could be a game changer.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Thanks Derek, I use the Diablo SandNet since it is easy to get at the big green shed. Domestically, I'd pay anything to keep the peace and reduce dust. SWMBO is very particular about dust so any work in the house puts me in the dog house for a week...or more. I hadn't considered Mirka. I get the Abranet strips for turning from them but hadn't thought about their sanders. Do you use a Mirka dust vacuum with your Ceros or can you connect it to your CT26E?

Just buy it, you’ll wonder how you ever put up with other tools beforehand.

If you are doing lots of gyprock and paster sanding, give the big Festool jobbie a crack - I see them all the time on Gumtree and Facebook...

LHS E 225 PLANEX Easy 225mm Drywall Sander M Class Dust Extractor Set

Just the handle bit of course!


As for dust extraction, all my Festool stuff is great. Others are right in that the Mirka is better, but that may be because they do a lot of automotive refinishing sales.... for those blokes, time literally is money.

Do you use a Mirka dust vacuum with your Ceros or can you connect it to your CT26E?

Ceros with CT26E. However, the latest version of the Mirka sander is the Deros.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by TongueTied

I have been fighting with a Makita orbital sander and decided to get an adapter so I could connect it to my Ryobi Shop Vac. It didn't quite fit so duck tape came to the rescue. I started sanding plaster top coat on a wall and was astounded at how well it worked. It wasn't dustless but it was a far sight less than usual. So, now it makes me wonder how well a purpose built system would work; in particular, Festool. I've heard that Festool do dust collection better than anyone so anyone having used a similar sander and now has a Festool and can tell me if the Festool would be similar or better to my jerry-rigged Makita, shop vac and duck tape?

Festool dust collection is good, but definitely not appreciably better than any other quality dust collection systems. Generally, the 2 big Euro manufacturers of dust collectors are very highly regarded by professional users: Starmix (Germany) & Nilfisk/Alto/Wap (Demark??). There's also another smaller German manufacturer (Kraenzle) that makes dust collection systems for Festool & is owned by Tooltechnic Systems.

Virtually every European (& quite a few Far-Eastern) based power tool manufacturers chooses appropriate models from the former 2 makers to market as their own OEM dust extraction vacs. Festool obviously choose Kraenzle models.

All seem to quality machines, but may vary significantly in price. As far as I'm aware, most hoses, tools & tool adapters are interchangeable between vac & power tool manufacturers, making for relatively stress & problem free dust extraction solutions, however one should ensure that what you choose to mix-n-match will actually fit.

I've used Festo & Festool vacs since the 80s: SR5E & CT22. I've just changed over to the Starmix system, in particular a large-ish 50L Autocleaning Concrete-rated Metabo branded version. Fortuitously it fits all my old Festo hoses, wands & ancillaries. It cost me less than half the price of the cheapest autoclean Festool vac, & less than 1/4 the price of the equivalently sized H-rated Festool.

I personally don't like the latest Kraenzle/Festool range mainly because I don't like their new hose-ends, nor their rather fragile & in my opinion wholly unnecessary "hose garages" they insist on fitting to their larger models. The additional price of Festool is also personally unjustifiable any more relative to their perceived features & benefits, which seem to have been eclipsed by their larger & more comprehensive indigenous European competition.

I suspect your "marginal" extraction results are perhaps, as Derek has already mentioned, more to do with using a conventional orbital for sanding plaster. Your results will generally be cleaner using mesh abrasives, & significantly faster also with a random orbital sander. Plasterers typically use much larger "giraffe" Random Orbital sanders for best results.

There's nothing whatsoever wrong with your Makita sander. M makes fine quality power tools, sanders included. Nor with using a shop vac. It's just that there's obviously better solutions available. Whether a change is justified is up to you: considering your specific needs & budget.

The Festool CTM26 vac is a LOT better than the karcher I had, far better hose, better connector, better suction (and variable suction is great for sanding) etc.

The 125 Rotex I have is a very different to the little 125 RO bosch sander I had before, a lot more power, a lot better extraction and quite a bit more difficult to control (its a different kind of sander after all)!

Mirka sanders all day over Festool. Unfortunately, the ceros is discontinued (I reckon it's better than the deros because if its clear size and weight advantage). The standard Festool 27mm hose threads directly into the Mirka sander with no adaptor at all

Originally Posted by elanjacobs

Mirka sanders all day over Festool. Unfortunately, the ceros is discontinued (I reckon it's better than the deros because if its clear size and weight advantage). The standard Festool 27mm hose threads directly into the Mirka sander with no adaptor at all

100% agreed.

On the non-availability, they may still be bought. I wrote to the Fix-it mob for Mirka here (https://freemanindustries.com.au/) for some parts (my little hinge is worn, $36 for a new cover, lever and hinge, bargain!)... he (Martin) confirmed they are still available, but unadvertised.

The dude from Mallee also said the same (MIRKA Electric Sanders & Polishers – Mallee Agencies) but I can't remember the reason why not. It didn't strike me as a big reason though, I vaguely remember it being sort of silly - "low demand" or such.

I absolutely love my Ceros 150 (a second hand model). So much so, that it was the one sander I chose to bring to the unit over all the others (Festool Rotex 125, a ROS150/3 and /5).

The mesh sanding grids... gods, they are grand.

Well said Ratbag.

Hi TongueTied

Can't vouch for other systems but before woodworking I really started doing manual things with a bit of painting. Because I have an obsessive personality fast forward and this wound up with me buying a Festool midi as my vacuum with a sander. (It was after that that I got the "bug" of wanting to do things myself by hand and into woodworking...)

I don't think I could compare with other high-end systems but it's a great *system* in that all the Festool products integrate so well. The added benefit is the systainers really mean you've got portable cabinets for all your gear. Even if you're going around the house it's handy.

I should add for a "dad-type" - the Festool vac is also great as a stand-alone vac. I share a bit of garage space with the laundry with a carpeted strip and it does double-duty for cleaning the shop every second day or so.

Deleted due to double-post.

Originally Posted by elanjacobs

Mirka sanders all day over Festool. Unfortunately, the ceros is discontinued (I reckon it's better than the deros because if its clear size and weight advantage). The standard Festool 27mm hose threads directly into the Mirka sander with no adaptor at all

Mirka sanders are probably the current state of the art in sanders; at least until the next "big thing" gets re-invented. But they're also seriously - if not hideously - expensive. True quality is seldom if ever cheap.

I've 3 of 'em. A couple of DEROS (in 5 & 8 mm orbits) & the smaller (80 x 133 mm) DEOS orbital. I also wanted a Delta DEOS, but at the price; $1075 WITHOUT a Systainer, it was getting ridiculous. So I instead bought a "clone". The Delmeq equivalent, which is out of the same Finnish factory, but with grey rather than Yellow livery.

In fact, I'd suggest getting any of clones rather than the branded originals. You'll save a few hundred or so each time you choose. If you want DEROS in particular, then there's Mirka available in 77, 125 & 150/125 mm versions, with a choice (in the 150mm versions) of 3.0, 5.0 & 8.0 mm orbits together with the 2 smaller orbits in Metabo livery, which are also available locally & are occasionally sale-priced. These both have the Mirka proprietary "plug-it" type interchangeable power cables. From a variety of European sources you can also get the same sanders, but with fixed cables, from the likes of Delmeq (Netherlands), CarSystem (Germany), Indasa (Spain), Rupes (Italy) & Sumake (Taiwan), all the same tool but with fixed cables & substantial savings.

In the DEOS range, as far as I'm aware Mirka only manufactures these models for themselves, Delmeq & Sumake, with the Delta version only available from the former 2. The DEOS orbit (3.0 MM) is about 20% more aggressive than other orbitals, making them significantly faster in operation.

Only (some) Mirkas come standard in Systainers, if that's your personal obsession, however you'll be saving a hundred or so (licencing fees, profiteering & idiot tax, y'know) if you buy without. I've seen some of these licensed clones going for about AU $500-600 equiv. or so, exclusive of freight. The UK in particular regularly features well-discounted used examples on the usual auction sites.

However, you'll only get the standard 3 year warranty available on domestic (OZ or NZ) indigenous purchases. Unfortunately at quite a premium for the privilege!

Mirkas aren't without their downsides, however. Their Plug-It type cable connectors, whilst incompatible with Festool's version, are anecdotally equally problematic & potentially unreliable: some people love 'em, but I'm not personally a fanboy, myself. The paddle switch can be programmed to be either on/off or variable speed, but becomes somewhat tiring over extended sanding sessions. Easily eliminated or rather circumvented with some 6 inches of easily removable insulation tape to keep it semi-permanently switched on. You'll also need to either unplug it or switch it off properly on the control panel to safely change abrasives without scaring the living daylights out of yourself when you inadvertently hit the paddle switch! Intermediate "protector" pads are necessary to preserve expensive pad or platen velcro hook life.

These negatives are pretty trivial really. Their positives are far more outstanding. The lightest sanders available in each type & size class, by a huge margin of some 20-50% +! Beautifully counterbalanced & smooth running, these are realistically the only sanders that my ageing body can cope with using vertically & overhead for working on walls, ceilings & boat hulls all day. They're extremely efficient running, with maintenance-free EC motors (no carbon brushes) using a ludicrously small 150-350 W. About 1/4 of most others, yet never in my usage ever wanting for torque. As mentioned above, the older soft rubber 27 MM Festool hose connectors slip on & stay on securely. I'm unsure about Festool's "new & improved" rigid plastic smoothbore hose connectors, but I'm dubious.

Leaving the best to last, however comes the mesh abrasives. Yes, you can use just about any type of paper or cloth abrasive in just about any particular weird or unique hole pattern available just about anywhere, thanks to the multi-multihole pads & protectors, but to do so really sells these tools short. Mesh abrasives allow the tool's truly outstanding dust extraction to manifest. No other combination of sander & abrasive comes closer to truly approaching the "dust-free" ideal. Mirka's versions are expensive but longer-lasting, & come in varying grades of more economical "standard" Abranet, & tougher & longer-lasting Ace & HD ceramic coated grades. Festool also make mesh abrasives now, as do many other manufacturers: Bosch, DeWalt, Sia et. al. The latter (SiaNet) being particularly economical in larger pack sizes.

Grit-for-grit, mesh abrasives also do their job significantly faster too. Their open pore structure actively resists clogging, aids airflow, cooling & extraction & is generally longer-lasting than the same grit equivalent in paper or cloth backed discs & pads. They can be prone to tearing if roughly handled in the same manner as paper abrasives, although the more expensive & heavier Ace & HD grades are much tougher.

But just because they're the best, it doesn't necessarily mean that Mirka & their clones are actually "best". Lighter, faster, cleaner, more efficient, better ergonomics but significantly & punishingly more expensive to buy & refill than most alternatives.

Whilst I'm a convert, it is perhaps tellingly significant that the only Mirka that I've disposed of - a DEOS 70 x 198 mm "plasterers' sized" sander - has been culled from my collection due mainly to its "weird" plasterers' pad dimensions & lack of usefulness. But I think my remaining 3-plus-one (Delmeq equivalent) will remain with me ad infinitum.

Originally Posted by Ratbag

Mirka sanders are probably the current state of the art in sanders; at least until the next "big thing" gets re-invented. But they're also seriously - if not hideously - expensive. True quality is seldom if ever cheap.

Yet the DEROS is still over $100 cheaper than the equivalent Festool ETS EC models (which is arguably it's nearest premium competitor) and that price difference hasn't changed since the Festool brushless sanders first came out. A better product for less money doesn't sound like a hideous deal to me... I was also getting double or more pad life than the Festools at the factory, so I also dispute the "more expensive to refill" bit.

My CEROS was hard wired, so I never had to deal with the plug-it cable problems, but the cable did die after a few years and they replaced the whole circuit board and cable under warranty. That's the only problem I had in close to 10 years of ownership and it got used a LOT (and dropped more than I care to admit).

The paddle switch I guess is personal preference, I really liked it and I found it was ideal for the kind of work I was doing (lots of organic shapes).