Thread: New Festool ETS Sander

There's nothing new about electronic torque control. I had a late 70's or early 80's vintage Black & Decker "Quattro" drill (from AEG's German factory I think) sporting both ETC and a clutch, as did my Fathers similar vintaged GSB 20-2RET Bosch. Just the ticket for tapping threads, as it only works on forward rotation.

The Narex/Protool Quadrive drills are indeed fast and powerful, but again were fairly late arrivals. I had a corded Narex/Protool drill that wouldn't keep to the preselected speed. It was well made, with quite beautifully sculptural alloy gearcase castings, a locking spindle, quality Rohm chuck and a fancy Kwik-Loc cable and Systainer, but just couldn't do its job properly (precision drilling metal in a stand).

My other Festo drills were older models: a C12 & Fastfix 14v T handle. Both were slow, gutless and couldn't do much work between charges, which meant an overall reduction in battery life too. I'm sure their latest tools are better, but I've moved on in the meantime to more useful tools. Once bitten twice shy. After having invested a few thousand in alternative products there's absolutely no rational reason, incentive or reward in returning to what was to me such an unsatisfactory and unsuitable product line. I have absolutely no need nor desire to use the fastfix system, except perhaps for the right angled drive unit which quite frankly seems to be better executed elsewhere!

In reference to the charging and cell technologies used, Festo was a late adopter of Lithium batteries, and seems to have taken absolute ages to up the capacity beyond 2.6ah. At least there's now 5.2ah batteries available (even 'though they're absent from the Oz website, with 4.2 the current max offered), while major competitors are already marketing 6.0ah Samsung cells in their batteries. The badly overlooked SDS gap in the market has only recently been addressed also. This tool in particular seems very well balanced but about 4 years too late!

I'm sure some particular tools offer particular advantages to some users, but as an overall package I still find them sadly lacking. I've needed cordless tools that can drive 4" holesaws in sheet metal and flooring, and 1 1/2" saws through girder webbing, SDS hammers that can drill hundreds of fixings a day, drivers that can both be sensitively & delicately feathered & sufficiently robust to drive roofing screws, jigsaws & grinders robust enough to operate in heavy gauge sheet steel & sabre saws that can cut through nails and concrete encrusted scantling & formwork. All on a single battery platform.

Festool can't, whereas the others can.

Originally Posted by Ratbag

I'm sure some particular tools offer particular advantages to some users, but as an overall package I still find them sadly lacking. I've needed cordless tools that can drive 4" holesaws in sheet metal and flooring, and 1 1/2" saws through girder webbing, SDS hammers that can drill hundreds of fixings a day, drivers that can both be sensitively & delicately feathered & sufficiently robust to drive roofing screws, jigsaws & grinders robust enough to operate in heavy gauge sheet steel & sabre saws that can cut through nails and concrete encrusted scantling & formwork. All on a single battery platform.

Festool can't, whereas the others can.

Well if that's your trade then I'd be the first to suggest Festool isn't for you. Up until the Protool range it was primarily a finish carpenters/woodworkers brand more than anything in construction. I suspect you know that though... so why the sweeping generalisations?

Fact is that up until recently the Festool system was as much about dust control as finesse and detail work. For someone like myself that does a lot of rework onsite then being about to bump-in, complete the install/refinish/repair and bump-out without leaving ANY dust is more important than if I have to carry an extra battery.

What an absolute crock of $hit about Festool not being suitable to the site.

An absolute crock.

My father and brother are an architect/builder and carpenter. They are spewing at my Festool collection. The SOLE reason. The ONLY reason they don't use them on site is because some bastard always flogs anything not secured every second.

Another finish carpenter mate comes over regularly and positively grasps at them. Like a kid needing ice cream on a hot day. GRASPS.

Every one of them say dust with clients is a huge issue. Cleanup, smoothness and professionalism. A client wows over a great and well cared for set of tools. They are VERY popular here with some tradies.

If you somehow think a $100 Bunnings special comes even close you are delusional. Full Stop.

Mike and Evanism, my sentiments exactly.

Being able to work almost dust free is the one big plus of most Festool tools.
This one of the main reasons I bought an ETS sander, sight unseen via Ideal Tools. Yes I could have saved a few dollars buying online elsewhere, but I needed a bit of advice, abrasives and in three days. (Thank you Anthony.) There was no guarantee that I would be able to visit a retail shop during trading hours, and they would have what I needed in stock.
I have a Midi dust extractor so I knew almost any Festool sander would be compatible with the hose without resorting to masking tape or a prayer (as I do when I use it with my non Festool plane).

I can tell you that to be able to machine wood or other material in a clients home and not needing to cover everything, or clean the room afterwards is a very big plus. To wheel in a stack of tools in Systainers also makes an impression on clients.
Does it cost big dollars? Yes. Is it worth it? At the end of the day and a few jobs, Yes.

Originally Posted by Ratbag

Their pricing policies concern me most of all however. I believe (but may be misinformed) that the local branch is actually privately owned & not a subsidiary of Tooltechnic. If this is so then one cannot directly blame the parent for the sins of the sibling. Nevertheless after years of denial that either or both tiers of the organisation indulge in criminal activities such as Resale Price Maintenance, it has since been shown that such arrangements not only exist, but are now officially sanctioned in a cosy little exclusive arrangement with the ACCC! It may now lately have been made legal, but it's still just as morally indefensible as ever.

This type of anti-competitive behaviour displays an arrogant contempt of my rights as a consumer, not to mention the reasonable ethical standards expected of suppliers of goods & services in Australia. The current circumstances make it personally impossible for me to continue doing business with them. I hold myself to a higher standard than rewarding such behaviour.

made official here

Code:

ACCC authorises minimum retail prices on Festool power tools
5 December 2014
The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission has granted conditional authorisation to Tooltechnic Systems (Aust) Pty Ltd (Tooltechnic) to set minimum retail prices on Festool power tools until 31 December 2018.

furthermore to this here is a comprehensive look how festoon was able to do this

Code:

In support of its application, Tooltechnic submitted that the introduction of a minimum retail price was necessary to prevent some retailers from free riding on the customer service being provided by higher priced competitors. Tooltechnic submitted that this practice undermined its business strategy of providing high levels of retail service and damaged its premium branding; placing the entire Festool supply chain under threat.

Public detriment
The ACCC acknowledged that Tooltechnic's proposed conduct would result in a clear public detriment, as some customers would be forced to pay a higher price than previously required. However, the ACCC determined that the extent of this detriment would likely be limited by the wide range of trade quality power tools available to customers, and the corresponding disincentive for Tooltechnic to set minimum retail prices above levels competitive with other brands.

its an interesting read

Originally Posted by nt900

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i just quoted you here as i haven't seen the Vecturo on your site yet, and also wondering how the above agreement effect your points system?

Thanks for that. I'd already read the ruling & was aware of the ACCC's incestuous, grubby little arrangement.

It may (now) be legal, but it's still just as unethical as it ever was! No matter how dubious the legalities or tenuous the justification may be the effect is still anti-competitive.

I have just learned this morning that BOTH of my Festo retailers have also now had their accounts closed..... after 35 years apiece trading with the company! Neither had any say in the matter. Now there's nowhere to have my Festos serviced <250 km away. No thanks!

Looks like there's going to be a couple of dozen or so F'tools hitting the second hand market pretty soon, as they're about as much use to me now as a side of beef to a vegan. No repairs, no service, no parts, and no consumables. Double-you Tee Eff???