Thread: Why did Festool (silently?) drop the BS-105 105mm Belt Sander?

I've never seen one in the states. I have a PC belt sander of a similar type that works well when it's hooked to a vacuum - it cost about a quarter as much. If they're not still selling it, I'd imagine that they didn't find much of a market for it.

(a look at the UK site shows that it can still be purchased).

Well, porter cable threw me out at first base.

IT appears that they cheapened the model that I have, raised the price to $380 US and now have discontinued it with a trail of reviews saying the redesign was crap. No surprise here (the brand is now a second tier brand in whoever's portfolio it exists in).

I've never used a sander like that for shop woodworking, just on floors. Worked for a tile and carpet guy 25 years ago for a summer, and same - heavily used site tool. Great sander. Half a day of working one will make it hard for even a young guy to stand up straight. I guess they're on the outs for some reason (makita still makes one).

As the high priced 6" - 7" dual mode sander market eliminated it? (they look cheap compared to the BS 105). No sign of BS-105 for sale in the US, too - references all lead to the UK. If you have good dealer support there, used probably isn't a problem (isn't AU where they had a problem with the regulators when they bought tools to push people toward buying new ones, though?).

Yeah it's strange, logic would say it was dropped because of lack of sales, as even by Festool standards it was expensive, and yet I reckon if you were looking for the most niche product, you couldn't go past the small vertical chainsaw Festool released!

I can't imagine people are lining up to pay $2k for a specific use tool like that, but a belt sander has universal appeal even if it's expensive?

When you can buy a good 100mm belt sander for under $500, I don't really see any appeal to the Festool at all; AFAIK, it doesn't offer any features than can't be had for less money elsewhere.

Originally Posted by elanjacobs

When you can buy a good 100mm belt sander for under $500, I don't really see any appeal to the Festool at all; AFAIK, it doesn't offer any features than can't be had for less money elsewhere.

Oh, Elan, how could you?

Just imagine those Germanic you tubers with their immaculate polished workshops, not a speck of sawdust anywhere, and their complete set of Festool tools in anally stacked systainers.

A Makita belt sander just would not colour coordinate!

Originally Posted by elanjacobs

When you can buy a good 100mm belt sander for under $500, I don't really see any appeal to the Festool at all; AFAIK, it doesn't offer any features than can't be had for less money elsewhere.

Didn't it come with a sanding float and attachment so you could mount it sideways?

These are optional extras on the Makita which if you needed them would bring the retail price of the Makita close to the Festools price range.
Having said that i'll still opt for the Makita Belt any day.

i've used Makita and other belt sanders while i did my trade as cabinetmaker.

I got rid of the Makita and I have had a Festool 75mm sander for the last 12 years, being able to use the levelling platform is a great function,

The mounts to allow the belt sander to rest upside down on a bench, is bloody handy.

Is it expensive, depends how you look at it, it hasn't let me down once.

I did notice that Festool seem to be reducing their options here in Aus, i'd be tracking down a secondhand model if you could pick it up for a good price.

They are cutting back on a lot of models of tools, and anything that is duplicated, even in size, is slowly being trimmed. Like many high end manufacturers, they are getting stung by the Chinese knockoffs, and have to cut costs.

Originally Posted by aarggh

Yeah it's strange, logic would say it was dropped because of lack of sales, as even by Festool standards it was expensive, and yet I reckon if you were looking for the most niche product, you couldn't go past the small vertical chainsaw Festool released!

I can't imagine people are lining up to pay $2k for a specific use tool like that, but a belt sander has universal appeal even if it's expensive?

I had a sword saw, it was lethal for cutting sleepers, but not suited to that working environment, in the dirt and all. Sold it ages ago, to a guy who does slab bench tops and the like, he loves it.

Originally Posted by riverbuilder

They are cutting back on a lot of models of tools, and anything that is duplicated, even in size, is slowly being trimmed. Like many high end manufacturers, they are getting stung by the Chinese knockoffs, and have to cut costs.

I wonder about that. I think the Chinese will almost always win any battle on costs. Surely Festool and other quality producers will have to win the battle on product differentiation and quality. Unfortunately, I am not convinced that they will.

A bit over a year ago I was in China and wandered into a four story tool store in Shanghai and it was a real eye opener. Very little of the "Chinese junk" imported by the BigChain retailers in Australia. But lots of good to excellent quality hand tools and electrical tools and machinery. Nothing was written in English, none of the staff spoke English but extremely friendly and helpful - lots of smiling, nodding and open hand guestures.... When, and if, the buyers for the BigChains stop buying junk from China and start buying the quality stuff that is available, then manufacturers such as Festool, Makita (Trade) and de Walt are ging to have big problems.

One product that I can remember was a miniature battery drill that looked virtually identical to a Festool CXS. It also felt solid and well-built, sounded smooth and was as vibration free as a Festool drill. Price was Yuan350 - about A$75. Now wished that I had bought it.

Instead I lusted after a push-pull table saw that looked remarkedly like the Mafell Erika 85 with slider which was priced at Yuan 4000 - about A$900. It was too big and heavy to post and the language barrier stopped us finding an alternative freight method. It just reeked quality - I kept sliding my hands over it to feel quality of finish. So sad.

One of the reasons that the Oz importer dropped the BS105E is I suspect because it was, in the overall scheme of things, an "orphan". It's quite an old design now: at least 40-50 years old! It's one of the reasons why Festool acquired the maker, Holz Her. The other was probably H. H's expertise in making SCMS type products such as the Symmetric & Kapex.

Yet it's still the best belt sander I've ever used. By a country mile. Far superior to the American Bosch or Japanese Makitas & Hitachis that I've borrowed & used over the years. There's just no other equal or equivalent to the peerless mighty maxi Holz Her belt sander design.

More available & usable power (2 HP). Better balance & ergonomics (at least when used horizontally anyway), the elongated body, mass & especially that perimeter base frame makes control & handling a breeze. That absolutely marvellous adjustable sanding frame actually turns it from a delicately balanced ultra-fine smoother of veneered finishes into a wood fibre munching beast par excellence.

BUT All the Euro models take (non-standard for OZ, the USA & to a lesser extent the UK too) 620mm long belts. We in the uncivilised world use "imperial" belts measuring 610mm. As do all the other OZ/UK/USA/Japanese Makitas, Hitachis, Bosches etc.

Holz Her were once famous for making tools for many other makers: Festo, Atlas Copco, AEG, Wurth, Milwaukee, Wolf, Kango, Metabo & even Bobbie Bosch. That all ended with the Festo takeover, hence why many of the aforementioned companies now sell & distribute rubbish belt sanders. The BS105 only was sold as a badge-engineered Wolf in the UK in 240v/1200w/610mm guise. The smaller BS75 model was sold to all & sundry until the takeover. It appears that Festo/ol is a rather jealous mistress; unwilling to share.

Given the price, the fact that F/T were selling SFA of these 240v/1400w/610mm machines at all in either OZ or the UK, it's hardly surprising that it's been dropped from the local lineup. $1.5K odd for a belter is just nuts.

Incidentally, they're quite reasonably priced on the used market in Europe. That's how I acquired mine. To change belt sizes to 610mm I had to replace 2 parts in the belt tensioning mechanism, which were clearly marked as "UK/Aus" specific alternatives on the tool's exploded diagram included with the tool & on the Festool website. These were quickly, easily & inexpensively obtained from F/T Oz, & of minimal fuss or bother to replace.

All-up, I think my near-new sander, frame, dustbag, extraction adapter, parallel guide, inversion stand/s, in a Maxisystainer kitbox with a dozen or so gratis (620 x 105mm) belts was around $600 odd incl. postage from Germany. The extra 610mm parts were around $50-60 ish or so from memory.

Thanks, RB, for a really informative and thoughtful post.

Originally Posted by ratbag

...Incidentally, they're quite reasonably priced on the used market in Europe. That's how I acquired mine....

I did a bit of googling for new ones and only got a few hits in Australia, UK and Germany for the Festool BS105E with that frame and in a systainer - around AUD1,500 in all countries including VAT/GST. Limited number of hits, plus a couple of references stating that it had been superceded by the BS75E, suggest that the BS105 is actually being phased out worldwide.

Lowest price that I could find a BS75E (without frame or systainer) was Euro 375 inc VAT - around Aus$520 VAT-free plus shipping if they are allowed to sell outside EU.
Festool Belt Sander BS 75 E | Grinding | Dictum

Did not look at used prices.

Festool in this country is first and foremost a trade supplier and if it does not fit into that market they would not have any reason to stock it. Walk through any panel beating shop to see what I mean, hobby sales are the cream and relying on those would send them broke. Trade buyers are also not so price sensitive because they can claim tools as a tax expense through the business.

I'd be curious on the numbers for tradies/hobbyists for the different tools. I reckon stuff like the Kapex would mainly be tradies, but I also bet there'd be a lot of hobbyists with Dominos.