Thread: the price of festool in australia compared to USA

Originally Posted by joe greiner

Bit of a rush to judgment here, boban. Our mate is BRICE Burrell, apparently highly regarded in the Festool community. Your bad guy is BRUCE Burrell.

Originally Posted by Brice Burrell

I'm not the Mr. Burrell doing the life sentence as Joe pointed out.

Brice Burrell (forum member with no criminal record)

Originally Posted by Woodlee

I beleive you are owed an apology anyways .

Joe

You guys can't be serious. Then again, two of you are seppos, I guess.

Terrific points Peter (MrFixit) All dead on the money

Americans are more often than not SHOCKED and disbelieving of what we pay for ply here... they simply cant get it into their heads that we pay anything up to and over 100 per sheet for "good" ply which is often found to have voids Some people over there that Ive been "mates" on this net thing with for up to 9 years have continuously berrated me for not having got on with it and built a boat... but so far the price of the marine ply has been hard as hell to justify with everything else in our lives... but they dont understand the cost... its the same with fuel costs they think they have it bad at $2 a GALLON... but try to explain that were paying $1.30 a LITRE and theres 4 liters to a US Gallon and they just dont get it

Ply prices are the same... timber prices again the same.

The fact that they have mills that will mill to required sizes and deliver for a low price COMPARED to here IF you can find a mill here that will do that... I am yet to

Jarrah is becoming harder to get and much of what you can get as "furniture grade" is more than likely construction grade... much of the Jarrah did and STILL DOES go out the harbors as woodchip (Note Bunbury Port STILL exports Jarrah woodchip by the cargo ship full) getting hold of sheoak Marri karri and others is becoming more and more difficult and getting them from a mill to the size you want or need is GOING to cost your left knut and your missus's right boob to achieve.

Trouble I see with Festool is its sorta like cars... you know? like the MG for instance or a Ferrari... your buying a name a status more than anything else.. is it worth the amount your going to pay? that depends on what your prepared to pay thats all nothing more nothing less... if your prepared to shell out the $$ to get one then you will but it has little to do with value its more status (from what I can see) as I said I simply cannot for the life of me find anyway to justify buying Festool anything (or Felder for that matter) the cost far and away outweighs any value I can see in it... that is me! Others will think its the ducks knuts and nothing or anything will convince them otherwise... I remember mates of mine with MGs back in the 70s would say the same thing... wouldnt hear a thing wrong with the mongrel things even when the wiring went when the lucas shyte went kaput still "MG's are the greatest thing since sliced bread" and so it is with the Festool boys and girls

But what you said about the timber issue is right on the money.

Let me show you how ridiculous pricing can be between the US & Oz. There is a product made here, it is a wheel alignment system for a kart and it is made in WA and exported world wide. I can buy that system in the US, import it here and it will cost me less than buying it here where it is made. You know what? They can't see any problem with this and refuse to lower the price in this market. I can see that they work to the dollar disparity but it is absolutely stupid.

Chatting to my female freind in the US yesterday asking her all about prices etc wages
Her Hubby works for Manpower over there wroks where they send him for a meger $12 per hr no holiday pay sick pay etc same as or casuals who would earn $25 an hr for doing the samething. Edited He is a Plumber Fitter and Turner by trade.

She did tell me that Delaware think thats the state where Dupont is pay no tax http://www2.dupont.com/DuPont_Home/en_US/index.html
on goods one of USA forumites might like to confrim or deny this.

My daughter came home a few years ago and said just got a job at Talon Tools this was me ok what discount is there what do they import great tools Talon.
Yeh right these were their garden stuff made in Asia, Asia owned have seen they are selling battery drills in Woolies since she left. Wont go into the product turned me off ever buying Talon.

So why is it that none of you seem to get that when you live in a country where the pay for sales people, couriers, postmen, and everyone else is often greater than what the owner of the business takes home, that this isn't reflected in the price we pay?

Why is it that when we live in a country with a huge Social Security network, that you don't think there should be hidden taxes to pay for all that?

Why hasn't anyone questioned the price of cars here vs there?

Or Fuel?

Or Medicare?

When your local Festool dealer starts driving the top of the range Merc, then you've got to think he's doing OK, until then, why not have a look at the cost of rent here vs elsewhere too.

The way to get cheaper gear, is to reduce wages for all those people who touch the stuff on the way through. How "unAustralian"!

OK, we can't do that... so let's just get the business owner to cut margins so they don't make a quid.....at least the workers get a fair go.

That's the Aussie way!

P

Originally Posted by bitingmidge

So why is it that none of you seem to get that when you live in a country where the pay for sales people, couriers, postmen, and everyone else is often greater than what the owner of the business takes home, that this isn't reflected in the price we pay?

Why is it that when we live in a country with a huge Social Security network, that you don't think there should be hidden taxes to pay for all that?

Why hasn't anyone questioned the price of cars here vs there?

Or Fuel?

Or Medicare?

When your local Festool dealer starts driving the top of the range Merc, then you've got to think he's doing OK, until then, why not have a look at the cost of rent here vs elsewhere too.

The way to get cheaper gear, is to reduce wages for all those people who touch the stuff on the way through. How "unAustralian"!

OK, we can't do that... so let's just get the business owner to cut margins so they don't make a quid.....at least the workers get a fair go.

That's the Aussie way!

P

The tax system is supporting all the Nations public servants Midge many more than on wealfare.
Then there are all those retired Polticians on life pensions of $100K + TAX FREE
There are well over 1000's of them state and federal who along with this earn a living from being board members running their own business, writting books being paid by everyone of us that spends money I still pay taxes everyday for every purchase I make its called GST.

I have not yet seen any benifits from private companies taking over government institutions with results of lower costs.
I'd be asking why did we have to bring in 3 USA men to run Telstra all we have seen is price rises just so he can gain his pay out figure.

Originally Posted by wheelinround

... one of USA forumites might like to confrim or deny this. ...

Aside from federal income tax, state taxes vary all over the lot. The Florida sales tax listed is subject to some local add-ons, currently maximum of 7.5% or 8% I think. In Washington state, no state income tax, but a camper inserted into the back of a pickup truck requires a separate number plate (taxed, of course). New York City has a city income tax in addition to the state income tax. Probably lots of other variations.

Some states with sales tax demand, but seldom get, a "use tax" for goods bought in a state without sales tax. There have been movements afoot to impose a national sales tax on internet purchases, but not yet popular enough to resist lobbying efforts to avoid.

Sales taxes in general (several with no sales tax, including Delaware):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_t..._United_States

Individual state taxes (all seem to have some way of taxing commerce):

http://www.town-usa.com/statetax/statetaxlist.html

State income taxes:

http://www.govspot.com/know/incometax.htm

http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/ind_inc.html

Our complicated tax legislation enactments are often called the "Lawyers and Accountants Full Employment Security Act." (in jest, of course)

Joe

It isn't the PRICE of Festool which bothers me, it is the company's prevention of discounting by its retail network.

I don't expect to buy a TS55 for the same price as a Bunnings Ryobi special, but I *do* expect to find a competitive sales environment, as I do for almost any other power tool.

It has already been stated that what happens on other Bulletin Boards IS NOT to spill over into here.

Please make sure this is adhered to.

Groggy
Moderator
Woodworking Australia's
WOODWORK FORUMS

Substantial price 'discounting' does occur, but it in my experience it mainly occurs under the name of legitimate price matching for dealers. I have first hand and very positive experience of this (in previous and recent times) with a Festool product.

Doubtless there are others with this experience, but you have to pick your time to purchase. Perhaps those others have not wanted to jump into this maelstrom, but I have combed the hair on my chest.

Regards

Originally Posted by MrFixIt

The problem I have with this pricing is that if they sell it at "what the market can stand" with the FULL KNOWLEDGE that they can sell it for MUCH less in other parts of the world and STILL MAKE A PROFIT, then this is ripping people off!

No, it isn't. Do you believe in free market economics? Apparently not. Like many people (maybe most), you think that the manufacturer should add up all its costs to design and make a product, add a profit percentage, and that's the selling price.

In a free market, it doesn't work that way (or shouldn't, though some companies still don't get it). First, you determine what the market will pay for solution X (primary and secondary markets). Then, you determine what it will cost you to design and make solution X. If the numbers work, you offer it to the market. If they don't, you lower the making expense (if you can), but you don't raise the price--because you've already determined what the market will pay. Thus all the whingeing about cheap Chinese tools and poor quality--well, the market wouldn't pay for better.

Consumer software is a really good example. The first copy sold may cost $1m to produce, given the R&D and programming efforts. The very next copy costs about $2 or less to produce. What should I sell it for? The answer is I should sell it for what the market will pay for it. Period. So my margin may be very large--tough. Don't buy it. It's my product and I'll offer it for whatever I like. If it doesn't sell, I'll have to lower the price or withdraw the product. That's my lookout. If it sells really better than I thought, I might actually raise the price until the market squeals "enough."

So it's no use complaining that they ought to offer mercs near the price of a Holden because they aren't that much more expensive to make. Doesn't matter. Not relevant.

The buyer rules the market and votes with his wallet.

Originally Posted by joe greiner

Aside from federal income tax, state taxes vary all over the lot. The Florida sales tax listed is subject to some local add-ons, currently maximum of 7.5% or 8% I think. In Washington state, no state income tax, but a camper inserted into the back of a pickup truck requires a separate number plate (taxed, of course). New York City has a city income tax in addition to the state income tax. Probably lots of other variations.

Some states with sales tax demand, but seldom get, a "use tax" for goods bought in a state without sales tax. There have been movements afoot to impose a national sales tax on internet purchases, but not yet popular enough to resist lobbying efforts to avoid.

Sales taxes in general (several with no sales tax, including Delaware):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_t..._United_States

Individual state taxes (all seem to have some way of taxing commerce):

http://www.town-usa.com/statetax/statetaxlist.html

State income taxes:

http://www.govspot.com/know/incometax.htm

http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/ind_inc.html

Our complicated tax legislation enactments are often called the "Lawyers and Accountants Full Employment Security Act." (in jest, of course)

Joe

Thanks Joe I might go through it all one day at east it will show Australian tax system just as stuffed up.

Originally Posted by MrFixIt

Hi

You MUST be kidding!

What "ALL great wood"??

I lived in LA, probably everything that exists in the US as a product was within driving distance to my house. The availability of hardwood was not as prevalent as it is within driving distance here in Melbourne. There was basically one specialty lumberyard that carried every single wood you listed, but they were pretty expensive. True, there was a fantastic range of plywood and engineered woods. I have not found the supply of ply here to be lacking, but I wasn't really considering plywood when I called out the 'good' wood here. AFA engineered construction wood goes, you guys have some stuff for building that I love that I've never even seen before. It would be for industrial use or commercial construction only in the states.

The natural disaster in New Orleans and the what seemed yearly hurricanes, floods and massive storms in the south of US soaked up a huge proportion of our construction timber and jacked the price thru the roof for everything else that's available. There wasn't a dry straight 4x2 to be found in an entire pallet at the time we moved. When I started renovating in 2002, an 8'x6" piece of straight grain fir was cheap enough that I don't remember the price. Maybe $6-8. I had to fit a piece last year, the same piece cost me over $20. Lumber isn't cheap anywhere anymore, unless you live in the middle of your own forest, then you have to amortize the cost of the mill to do it yourself.

I respect your opinion though. I have lived in both places and it's still new to me here. Maybe I don't assign importance to maple or fir because I've been around it all my life. I feel like the wood here is exotic, and so from where I stand, "We've got all the good wood here".

At the risk of being political, you should move over there for a while, the country could really use some people right now who love it there. It's all relative where is better. Hope I haven't offended, it's just an online discussion, not the end of the world.:aussie3:

Well, I'm really not looking at solving the injustices in every country where Festool is sold. I cant really begin to understand a country that would elect a bumbling fool like George Bush but they sure are good at getting consumer goods down in price.

I think the thing is that Festool is sell at the price the market will pay. So I for one am willing to pull the rug out from under them and tell them I wont pay more if the opportunity presents itself.

If I can get a reasonable price converter it might be the go.