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18th August 2013, 10:11 PM #1
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1045 And Heat- A Chance Discovery
I made a pair of tee nuts yesterday from some bright 1045 and decided to colour them with a bit of heat.
I heated them with a Mapp torch until they were just turning purple and quenched them in used motor oil. For some reason, slackness on my behalf, one was a whisker too wide to fit in my mill's 12mm tee slot. I thought simple, I'll just knock the high spots off with a file. The file, little used and sharp, skated across the surface. I tried other files with the same result. I ended up resorting to a diamond file and a carborundum stone to remove about 0.1mm.
1045 is easy stuff to file, I used needle files to remove the milling burrs prior to the cook up but I certainly wasn't expecting this.
RC had discussed the heat treating of 4140 some time ago. Soft soap was used as a coating to prevent scale but with the 1045 it didn't get hot enough. I wasn't out to try to harden the things.
Has anyone else played around with 1045 and a torch with similar results?
Bob.
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18th August 2013 10:11 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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18th August 2013, 10:50 PM #2
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What was in the oil Bob.
Maybe with the carbon already present helped it along.
1045 is a medium carbon steel...isn't it???
Phil
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18th August 2013, 10:59 PM #3
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Hi Bob,
Any heating and quenching of steel with any carbon content with result in it getting harder. Not as hard as when you take the steel to its curie point and quench, and i would not have thought at purple hard enough for a file to skate off it, but obviously it has hardened a bit. May be a good excuse to get some rockwell files. 6 PCS Metal Hardness Tester Testing Gauges Files SET KIT NEW | eBay
Phil, 1045 has .45% carbon, hence the 45......
Ew1915 17"x50" LeBlond heavy duty Lathe, 24" Queen city shaper, 1970's G Vernier FV.3.TO Universal Mill, 1958 Blohm HFS 6 surface grinder, 1942 Rivett 715 Lathe, 14"x40" Antrac Lathe, Startrite H225 Bandsaw, 1949 Hercus Camelback Drill press, 1947 Holbrook C10 Lathe.
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18th August 2013, 11:04 PM #4
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The oil is from a 300,000 km Corona I had years ago. One that had oil added to, not changed. The oil is nasty black stuff.
Originally Posted by Steamwhisperer
Bob.
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18th August 2013, 11:28 PM #5
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Maybe bottle it and sell if it works that well. Call it Corona 300K hardening fluid. Originally Posted by Anorak Bob
Nev.
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18th August 2013, 11:55 PM #6
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Hmmmm, 300,000 out of a corona.
A bit of heat and a bit of pressure and you would have pure diamond Bob.
Phil
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19th August 2013, 12:28 AM #7
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Corona Hardening....
Flame Heat treatment procedure for 1045 is heat to 845 C and oil quench should give a surface hardness before tempering of 55-62 Rc, but a few mm in from the edge it will be 20-30 Rc or so depending on depth.
No data available for Toyota Corona 300,000 oil quench... I typed in the query and it just said ............... W.T.F?
Regards
Ray
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20th August 2013, 02:41 PM #8
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Hi Bob, Originally Posted by Anorak Bob
Maybe this was more of a reflection of the quality of your Chinese files?
Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.
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20th August 2013, 04:04 PM #9
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Glardon Vallorbe does sound a bit Chinese doesn't it. Could well be where I went wrong. Maybe an upgrade is in order. Originally Posted by simonl
Hi Bob,
Maybe this was more of a reflection of the quality of your Chinese files?
BT
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20th August 2013, 04:07 PM #10
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Would it be possible with a map torch to over heat* the peaks and for the peaks to be quenched by the main body of metal when the flame is removed resulting in case harderned peaks? So I assume very shallow.
BT did you try a file again once you had taken some off with the diamond file?
Only theory I have.
Stuart
*over heat as in way over the 300ishC BT was after.
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20th August 2013, 04:35 PM #11
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Originally Posted by Anorak Bob
Those pesky Chinese are everywhere
Regards
Ray
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20th August 2013, 04:51 PM #12
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Well since I'm quite at home with Chinese rubbish, I suggest you do yourself a favour and offload them all to me and you start out again. I'll even contribute to the postage. Originally Posted by Anorak Bob
SimonGirl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.
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20th August 2013, 06:06 PM #13
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Careful, he'll do it! Originally Posted by simonl
Well since I'm quite at home with Chinese rubbish, I suggest you do yourself a favour and offload them all to me and you start out again. I'll even contribute to the postage.
Simon
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20th August 2013, 08:43 PM #14
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Brittle ?
Hi
I have heard of people trying to harden mild steel by heating and quenching. The result has been a very brittle piece of steel that will break with a slight tap of a hammer . The atomic structure of MS is somehow re-organized into a crystaline structure that is not very strong at all
A friend made some vehicle spring shackle pins from MS and tried to harden them by quenching .. it was a disaster -- the pins broke as if made from plasticine 
Mike
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20th August 2013, 09:11 PM #15
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Trouble is that MS is such a wide description these days you are not 100% sure what you are getting. Although people say it can't be hardened I find it is slightly harder when heated and quenched, so there must be some carbon there somewhere.
With Bob's 1045 there is definitely carbon there so it will get harder although I'm surprised that the effect can be realised at only around 280 degrees C (full purple) - mind you, if I understand the table in the Black Book I have, the transformation temperature is only a bit above 500 degrees (red heat, visible in daylight) so depending on metal composition, ambient light, perception of colour and a few other things, perhaps the temperature was higher (and MAPP can get things hot after all).
Michael
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