Thread: 3 phase plugs

Check out this document - http://updates.clipsal.com/ClipsalOn...s/W0000791.pdf

Brand specific obviously, but I have never come across any that havent fit other brands of sockets/outlets. I am sure someone will correct me on that!

not sure you scan do that..i think it might be illegal
5 pin...3 for Phases , 1 for Neutral and 1 for Earth

eskimo If it was to be part of the fixed wiring and meet code, I dont think it couldnt be done (i'm not sure that it couldnt be done), but it isn't so I can do what I like.
The neutral pin will be use as the common for the FWD/REV of the inverter. If someone was to plug in a plug that needed to use the neutral pin, they wouldnt be able to turn the inverter on. Well you could change the settings on the inverter to make the on/off button on the inverter itself work.

Stuart

Wont you have to alter the fixed wiring (socket outlet) to change the function of the 5th pin.
It's ok if it is designated a special purpose outlet and is modified to prevent anything else from being plugged into it. You may endanger your inverter as well. The neutral is an active conductor and if your machine is plugged into another outlet you may get 240V directly onto a control input. Not good, as they are usually volt free or ELV.

Which control function do you want to operate from the plug? Maybe we can work out a better way to do it.
If I have totally misunderstood your intent then ignore this post and carry on.

Just to add info. The inverter is 240V single phase to 415V 3 phase.

The socket in question will be wired to the inverter, The inverter is them plugged into at 240V socket. So the fixed wiring wont be altered.

"The neutral is an active conductor and if your machine is plugged into another outlet you may get 240V directly onto a control input." Wouldn't that mean if the socket was wired correctly the machine would have two neutrals? That would be a bad thing anyway.

The reason for using the 5th pin as control is so when I unplug the shaper and plug in my drill the control functions are switched to the machine that is pluged in. I could wire all three machine in parallel and it would work fine, but that would mean that you could turn the drill on and off from the shaper...... not so good. (it would also have the same "output with no load" possabilty as the next idea.

I could achieve the same result with two plugs next to each other. One for the 3 phase and one for the control wire, pretty ugly and it would be possible to unplug the 3 phase line and still have the controls working, the inverter doesn't like not having a load.

What I have ATM is a 4 pole double throw switch and switches the 3 phases and the control wire between the shaper and the mill. I could go to a 4 pole triple throw switch if I could find one, but going to a socket on one side of the switch would mean that if I got another 3 phase machine I wouldn't need a 4 pole 4 throw switch.

Close Mark but they don't have the Dia of the actual business end of the plug and socket

Stuart

Originally Posted by Stustoys

"The neutral is an active conductor and if your machine is plugged into another outlet you may get 240V directly onto a control input." Wouldn't that mean if the socket was wired correctly the machine would have two neutrals?

I'm not sure what you mean by that. The 5th pin is always the neutral and a five pin plug only has one neutral. I think what NCArcher is getting at is that there could be voltage present on the 5th pin of a normal outlet and if you (or someone who doesn't know what you've done) plugs your machine into that normal outlet, dangerous voltages could be present on your "control" wire and anything connected to it.

Originally Posted by Stustoys

I could achieve the same result with two plugs next to each other. One for the 3 phase and one for the control wire, pretty ugly and it would be possible to unplug the 3 phase line and still have the controls working, the inverter doesn't like not having a load.

Cable tie the control lead to the 3 phase lead and keep it short enough that the control lead has to be disconnected prior to disconnecting the 3 phase lead.

I missread NCArchers post.
There isnt a normal outlet to plug into.
If someone moves one of my machines, they would have to disconnect all the extra control wiring anyway.

Maybe the double plug idea isnt so bad, but I still need the plug sizes as I have a socket and two plugs that dont fit. So I either need to buy two new plugs that fit the socket ot a new socket to fit the plugs.

Stuart

What voltage does the control for the inverter run at?

If it is low voltage then use a low voltage connector like these Jaycar Electronics - Search results for the control wire

Originally Posted by Stustoys

Maybe the double plug idea isnt so bad, but I still need the plug sizes

I have a 10 amp 415V socket on my TC grinder but a 20amp plug will not fit into that BUT a 10 amp plug will fit a 20 amp socket...

Don't have any 32 amp plugs so don't know about them..

Also there are other older plugs and sockets out there like 15 amp, but I think they are the new 20 amp...

Originally Posted by Stustoys

If someone moves one of my machines, they would have to disconnect all the extra control wiring anyway.

But if the machine has a normal 3 phase plug on it's lead, what would stop them from just plugging it into a normal 3 phase outlet?

Originally Posted by Stustoys

...but I still need the plug sizes

Try here page 50

Yeah RC the 10 and 20 amp plugs at the same DIA but one has a pin the other has a flat. So one will go in both and the other will only go in one. If I read the clipsal pdf correctly over 32amps goes up in DIA. From memory the control runs 12V but it could be 28V.

Vernonv There isnt a "normal" socket here to plug it into. Unless someone moved the shaper, mill, drill and inverter as one unit, the wiring would have to be disconnected. (this will change going to two plugs)

Seems clipsal already make a plug and socket to fit my needs. But I'm sure I don't want to pay for it. Thanks for the link on sizes.
Two plugs will neaten the control wiring up, so I might go with that.

Ok guys for a bonus point I want to run a 24VAC hour meter from a 32VAC supply. What do I need?


Stuart

Originally Posted by Stustoys

Ok guys for a bonus point I want to run a 24VAC hour meter from a 32VAC supply. What do I need?

24VAC

Sorry Stu, I couldn't resist

Chris

Originally Posted by Polie

24VAC

Sorry Stu, I couldn't resist

Chris

Well I have them already, its what to do with the other 8V thats the problem

Originally Posted by Stustoys

Well I have them already, its what to do with the other 8V thats the problem

Tell them to go and play outside?

Can't find a transformer lying around somewhere to go from 240 or 415 down to 24V? Pretty sure the one in my mill has a 24V tap on it (as well as 110V)...