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  1. #16
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    A tunnel? Now that's what you call commitment! Well, had a visit to my sparky mates place today. I said to him, how much will the cable cost to run 3 phase to my shed, 110M away from the power meter? $5 per meter per conductor. So that's 1 for each phase plus neutral and earth, 5 wires. So about $25 per meter Since I need 110 metres, it's more economical to run individual conductors since it's easier to buy per metre. The cost of this little exercise seems like it may be quite high! Still, I can't help think that if I don't do it when I can that I will be kicking myself long after the pain of the initial cost has subsided... Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

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  3. #17
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    Hi Simon,

    Look at it this way, for single phase you'd only save $10 a meter

    Stuart

  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stustoys View Post
    Hi Simon,

    Look at it this way, for single phase you'd only save $10 a meter

    Stuart
    Well, sort of. I wouldn't have to go to the meter box at the front pillar, only to the house in that case which would be about 45M not 110M. Was thinking yesterday, that will teach me for building the shed shed far away from the house! Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  5. #19
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    Dec 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by simonl View Post
    Thanks. Sounds like you have a great setup. Boat building always brings up bitter/sweet memories for me. My Dad spent 17 years building a yacht. Being the only son in the family, who do you think was expected to help him on my weekends?

    It was a Bruce Robberts Spray, 40 ft steel hull. Over-engineered and well built for ocean going. Biggest trip he did was from Mordialloc to refuge Cove and back. He was in his late 60's when he did that. I think he spent so much time building it that when it was launched and finished, he didn't know what to do with himself. Go figure!

    Simon
    Ah! sounds like you suffer from an unfortunate DIY boat building experience. Very unfortunate that your father's dream project took so long, that he could not fully enjoy the fruits of his (& your) labour in his senior years. A 40ft "Spray" is a large very capable yacht, your father may have just lacked enough interested /compatible bodies to help him sail it on longer ocean voyages.

    That said I was involved in a Classic Yacht regatta in Scotland last year, where a 70 y.o. Itallian sailed his 70 footer from Italy to Scotland single handed (but he had also sailed the same yacht across the Atlantic numerous times & around the world twice - all single handed!) Such a man just requires the skills, fitness and absolute committment.

    I have been a competitve (small boat) sailor & spare-time boat builder /restorer for 40 years. Sadly I have heard many stories similar to yours. The fundamentals of boat building are similar, but more complex than house building. Both require good project management, facilities, skills & the right tooling.


    Back to your main subject - 110M 3 ph connection to shed - suggests your Sparky has done/should do a load calculation and spec your "Building Wire" to keep voltage drop to a minimum. Also cost your 3ph switchgear etc. as that can easily exceed the wire cost.

    Agree, do well it now, or regret later.

  6. #20
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    Thanks young flyer,

    I think the majority of my fathers enjoyment was in the building of it. Most of it was built while he was fully employed at a fitter/turner so a lot of it was done on his weekends/public holidays (that's where I came in ) Much of the engineering side of things was done from scratch at his work in his lunchtime & before/after work. It's only now that I realise how much I learnt from my dad during those years. I helped dad sandblast the hull and zinc spray it top to bottom, it took weeks/months and it was mostly over summer in 40 degrees. Not much fun when wearing one of those suites. I remember having to vacuum up the sand before zinc spraying, being so hot (let alone in a steel hull) sometimes your sweat would roll off onto the new steel. Dad would have a go at me saying not to contaminate the new steel! Halfway through, the diesel driven 3 cylinder compressor itself. Dad bought the white metal and hand scraped new bearing journals for it. As a young teenager that job seemed to take a "lifetime" yet in reality it probably took a week and we were back at it. Anyway, in the early 90's Dad's engineering firm closed down and he never found another job. A combination of his age and a lack of a will to find a new job meant he went from being unemployed to being retired. He worked on the boat full time until it was launched at Mordialloc Creek. He was a lost soul after that, since it consumed so much of his life and now it was done.

    He managed a few sailing trips here and there, but being a grumpy old man, he found it difficult to attract any willing participants to come along to help. The yacht sat idle for a couple of years before Dad found the courage to eventually sell it. It was hard for him but once he detached himself from it, he realised it was a phase in his life that had run it's course. With the money from the sale, Mum and Dad bought a near new 4x4 and some camping gear, and did some pretty impressive major trips to Qld, WA, Tassie etc. etc.

    I portray my memories of it in a negative way but nothing in life is all negative. Some positives for me are that I got my sea legs! It came at a very heavy cost though, never had I been more sick than sailing from Westernport through bass strait and into Port Phillip heads, 4M swell and I was on a ride from hell with no way off, I fed the fish the whole way. If anyone has seen the movie Team America, it was like the vomitting scene in that movie……..

    But, no matter what the weather, when or where I never get sea sick anymore! Thanks Dad!

    Anyway, enough of memory lane.

    Just for the record I have an update on costs for upgrading my meter box to 3 phase power. For a standard call out fee for the truck/crew the power company will charge $124.62 and it will cover the first 30 mins. After that it will be $50.21 per 15 mins. On top of that is the cost of my electrician to do the wiring of the meter box.

    So, if the job to connect 3 phase to my meter box takes 1 hour, then I will be up for $124.62 + $100.42 + Electrician for an hour. The callout fee includes the cost of the new meters.

    For that price, I'm going to have 3 phase connected to the meter regardless whether or not I decide to connect 3 phase to the shed.

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  7. #21
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    Aug 2010
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    HI
    I have not read all post here but I thought I would add my experience of getting 3ph to the shed.
    When the electrician came and quoted me he told me the best was to run the same size cable that came in from the street which meant to be able carrier 62 amps per ph. can not remember the cross section. I ask why and he told me it the cheapest cable around as the make so much of it the for to run anything else would cost more....so I have 186 amps available in the shed...

    My shed is about 6mt from the house so run my cable above ground much easier to do

    R
    vapourforge.com

  8. #22
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    Simon,
    Thanks for the expanded tale of boat building & sailing. I'm glad you realise what a unique experience it was to go through the sweat & tears of steel boat building in summer!

    When I was 32 I had plans drawn for a 42ft centre cockpit steel ketch and dreams of doing the Pacific Island cruise to Tahiti etc. That was whilst living in Fiji for 5 years. Years later after several other postings we were back in Brisbane 3 kids in tow & a mortgage etc. etc. The quote to have the hull built escalated from AUD32k to AUD60k end of that dream.

    We have chartered yachts for short cruises on holidays, since that early dream I have had several racing yachts all timber and under 6 Metres - most were self built or restored. Also for 5 years crewed off shore & coastal races as navigator on OPBs.

    Now I'm about to build a 7.7M cruising Cutter to my own design. Yes it will also be trailable, that way it lives at home in my workshop and we can tow it almost anywhere without being delayed in some harbour due to bad weather i.e. 3 days to tow (north or south) from Brisbane to the Whitsundays, instead of 1 - 3 weeks on water subject to weather. Mooring, maintenace & insurance is a fraction of that required for a "hole in the water to pour money into".

    Back on main topic, yes three phase connection has several advantages, particulatly if you install solar grid connect. Its much easier to spread your house load across phases, install a Tarrif 33 (reduced hours) meter & put your bedroom aircons, pool pump, irrigation pumps etc. on that; basically any load that you don't need during peak grid load hours - even Solar HWS booster can go on tariff 33 meter. Not sure about your shed power going on Tariff 33?? So I appreciate $$$s can be budget limiting but look at the global picture of your energy needs - improve the efficiency of all your electrical devices, install solar HWS or gas if you have not already - maximise the use of off peak electricity prices.

    The challenge is not just yes or no to get 3 phase power to your "Man cave"! having three phase at your meter box can still provide lots of new options.

    Cheers,
    David

  9. #23
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    When we installed the solar system, our house s/board had to be upgraded and at the time I ask the electrician to replace the whole switch board and upgrade to 3 phase. The difference wasn't that much. To run the 3phase to the shed wasn't that much of an issue either since I can go under the house and then underground for a few meters to the shed, sub board, etc.

    The cable sizes usually go as follows. From the pole on the street to your mains bracket and into your switchboard box to the meters it is 4 core 16mm2 aluminium. This can carry 100 amp max per phase. From there it is up to you but to give you an idea, for a 10, 15, 20 amp 3phase powerpoint (5pin ) you only need 2.5mm2 copper that is. A 20 amp powerpoint in 3 phase will run any domestic and semi industrial size motor you can think off including a largish L'invincibile combination machine. The 20 amp 3 phase 5 pin powerpoint are the one with the skinny pins. Don't install 4 pin powerpoints since 4 pin goes into 5 but not the other way.

    Up from that is the 32 amp per phase that requires 6mm2 per phase so a 4 core + earth cable. A 32 amp 3phase powerpoint will carry any size welder you want including a old fashion pig also known as a bullet welder of 400 amp. A real power hog. The 32 amp 5 pin power point is the one with the thick pins and you can only plug in 32 amp plugs and not 20 amp ones. Since you will not be welding at 400 amp all the time, a compressor with a 7hp motor can also go happily on the same 6mm cable.
    If you decide to install a factory in your backyard with a team of 3 Tig welding machines, two 10hp compressors and a couple of large plasma cutters working at the same time, I suggest 50 amp power points and a 4 core plus earth 10mm cable. (only joking, but just to show that usually we overdo it with cable sizes.
    “We often contradict an opinion for no other reason
    than that we do not like the tone in which it is expressed.”

    Friedrich Nietzsche


  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    When we installed the solar system, our house s/board had to be upgraded and at the time I ask the electrician to replace the whole switch board and upgrade to 3 phase. The difference wasn't that much. To run the 3phase to the shed wasn't that much of an issue either since I can go under the house and then underground for a few meters to the shed, sub board, etc.

    The cable sizes usually go as follows. From the pole on the street to your mains bracket and into your switchboard box to the meters it is 4 core 16mm2 aluminium. This can carry 100 amp max per phase. From there it is up to you but to give you an idea, for a 10, 15, 20 amp 3phase powerpoint (5pin ) you only need 2.5mm2 copper that is. A 20 amp powerpoint in 3 phase will run any domestic and semi industrial size motor you can think off including a largish L'invincibile combination machine. The 20 amp 3 phase 5 pin powerpoint are the one with the skinny pins. Don't install 4 pin powerpoints since 4 pin goes into 5 but not the other way.

    Up from that is the 32 amp per phase that requires 6mm2 per phase so a 4 core + earth cable. A 32 amp 3phase powerpoint will carry any size welder you want including a old fashion pig also known as a bullet welder of 400 amp. A real power hog. The 32 amp 5 pin power point is the one with the thick pins and you can only plug in 32 amp plugs and not 20 amp ones. Since you will not be welding at 400 amp all the time, a compressor with a 7hp motor can also go happily on the same 6mm cable.
    If you decide to install a factory in your backyard with a team of 3 Tig welding machines, two 10hp compressors and a couple of large plasma cutters working at the same time, I suggest 50 amp power points and a 4 core plus earth 10mm cable. (only joking, but just to show that usually we overdo it with cable sizes.
    Crickey!

    My head hurts.


    My power needs are not goint to be massive. A 40A circuit spread over three phases will be plenty for me. My sparky mate just emailed me a quote for the wire. 120M of 16mm 4 core plus earth will be $1500. 50mm conduit to suite will be $14 per length. Not sure of his hourly rate but I will pay him cash. We used to work together on shift, he very pedantic and does a good job. Whatever he asks for in labour I'll be happy to pay.

    Firstly though I need to organise the 3 phase connection. I'll need to use a local sparky for that since my mate lives about a hour away and it's a waste of his time to do that part.

    Cheers.
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  11. #25
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    I finally bit the bullet 16 months ago and had 3ph put to the shed,
    $5400
    For a 200amp service. Beats the hell out of the phase converter because now i can run my big welder and AC
    Warning Disclaimer

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by matthew_g View Post
    For a 200amp service.


    I'm thinking 20A per phase and/or a total of 60A for 3 phase will be plenty. I don't even think I could draw 200A from the house without upgrading the service and the entire street!

    How many machines would you run at once to draw a total of 200A from your supply?

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  13. #27
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    The power rating for the standard 16mm 4 core wires for a 3 phase service mains is nominal 100 amp per phase. Any ordinary 3 phase system will be able to deliver 300 amp at the switchboard. Just like any ordinary single phase mains will deliver 100 amp at the switchboard. The limitations are usually in the wiring inside the house or the shed.
    “We often contradict an opinion for no other reason
    than that we do not like the tone in which it is expressed.”

    Friedrich Nietzsche


  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    The power rating for the standard 16mm 4 core wires for a 3 phase service mains is nominal 100 amp per phase. Any ordinary 3 phase system will be able to deliver 300 amp at the switchboard. Just like any ordinary single phase mains will deliver 100 amp at the switchboard. The limitations are usually in the wiring inside the house or the shed.
    I see. Thanks for the info.

    Simon
    Girl, I don't wanna know about your mild-mannered alter ego or anything like that." I mean, you tell me you're, uh, super-mega-ultra-lightning babe? That's all right with me. I'm good. I'm good.

  15. #29
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    You may need to check your local supply. In WA its 63A per phase as a standard connection.

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by BobL View Post
    You may need to check your local supply. In WA its 63A per phase as a standard connection.
    Agreed, supply amperage seems to vary from place to place, my brother fitted a phase converter in his shed and had to allow for 80 amps at his switch board.
    I also have 3 phase, 80 amps/ph at the house and 60A at the board in the shed, 3 x 20 amp outlets on one side of the shed, the other side of the shed sooner or later will get a 50 and 2 x 20's maybe, that all depends on IF I get a spark eroder some day?

    shed

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