Thread: Advice on condition of new mill received - Titan TM25v

Just buy a length of high tensile allthread, cut it to length and make chips. There's absolutely nothing special about a drawbar that you need to obsess over it.

Thats all I did with mine when I needed an imperial drawbar, mind you mine literally looks like a long bolt. Yours looks slightly more complicated

Thanks for all the info all! I will get the drawbar sorted soon, Stuart is trying to find one for me now.


I was just having another look at the machine (cleaning and oiling the ways, lead screws etc... as I just picked up 20l of Vactra #2 wayoil) when I noticed this in the dove tail of the x axis... It's a big hole/straight through air pocket in the casting . I am a bit worried about that one as it is rather large. Is this "acceptable"? This is my first mill but that just ain't right to me??? What do you all think? I am going to have to strip the whole machine down ASAP to find out what else is lurking in the darkness... I haven't pulled the table off yet as I have been trying to organise the drawbar to check the head is all good before I start pulling it apart etc. Not sure on this one but that is a real bad cast to my eyes that shouldn't have left the factory, even for China... What does everyone else think?

All info and thoughts are greatly appreciated!

Regards

Steve

No, that is not right. That needs to go back to the vendor.

Michael

That's distressing I would tKe it back

Hmmm yeah that's what I think.... I haven't taken anything off yet to check further but if this is what it's like so far... Drawbar cap all cracked, drawbar too short, 5mm chip in the top of the Z axis dovetail, HEAPS of play in the Z axis handle, now this big hole in the tables X axis dovetail and I haven't pulled anything off to check everything else yet either... This ain't right at all for a brand new machine...

Problem is, I am in Cairns QLD and Titan Machinery is in Tuggarah NSW. Freight is $375 but I shouldn't be responsible for that at all, given the amount of factory defects in the machine. I just sent Stuart an email with the photo's of the new found holes in the dovetail. Fingers crossed he will come to the party.

Should I contact ebay and PayPal now do you think to let them know what's going on? This is pretty bad for a new machine, no matter what country it's come from, Australian sellers should thoroughly check them all before sending them out I would think... Bugger

How does something like that get through even the most basic quality control and surely the reseller in Australia must do some inspection of the machine prior to sale. It needs to go straight back to the seller.

Mark

I don't think he does check them. Yeah it's has to go back. This is too much of a f)$& around for a brand new machine. off as I should be making parts with it now not wasting hours finding defect after defect ... I've sent him an email with pics directly and through ebay as well. Will try calling him tomorrow to hopefully sort something out. Fingers crossed it goes smoothly or it's ACCC. Don't want to jump the gun yet though but I shouldn't have to do this to begin with. It's up to the seller to check their products thoroughly, surely??? :/

Originally Posted by SkydivingSteve

It's up to the seller to check their products thoroughly, surely??? :/

Yes, it is - but they don't. They drop-ship in many cases. Then they complain that we buy 'foreign' and are sending them broke. Good thing for them that wharfage is so extortionate or more people would buy direct from o/s. Good luck with it, that machine is clearly defective. Start drafting your letter to the ACCC right now, though, and refer the seller to this forum as well, because I don't think you're going to get an immediate resolution. PDW

The thing is, I bought it from an Australian company to support their "local" business instead of buying direct from Weiss or whoever o/s. So I was trying to do "the right thing" as we don't make anything in Australia anymore (even all our Australian flags at all of our parliament houses are made in China FFS! ). Plus, they will (well should) have insurance for this type of situation anyway.

Well according to the ACCC it's up to them to replace it if it is a "Major Problem" aka fault or defective and pay all further shipping (sending it back and/or sending out a new one that isn't defective) that's relieving...

From the ACCC:
"Returning the product


You are responsible for returning the product, unless the cost of doing so is significant. In this case, the business must organise and pay for the return or exchange.


You do not have to return products in the original packaging in order to get a refund."

http://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/con...replace-refund

So all things considered that are wrong, faulty, defective and missing from this machine, everyone here agrees that this machine is a "major problem"? Just want to be sure as I am about to start writing the letter.

Thanks for all the help, info and advice!

Fingers crossed!

Yes, that is a major problem - don't be put off by suggestions that it could be bogged up or welded and filed back. If it was the last machine tool in the world I would use it but until then...

Michael

Yep, it's a major problem and I would not accept that machine. Titan needs to replace the machine and pay for all the freight.

Good luck with that.

I've got an near copy of this mill, an Optimum BF20L. Bought from Ausino Engineering Supplies in Melbourne - shipped to me in Tassie - that there is the biggest issue, if I could walk through the door I might have got a better/different outcome.

My Z column dovetail sides aren't parallel (ie. it is narrower in the middle like it has a waist-this happens because the middle of the dovetail on these machines is open - so the nut that moves the head can move up and down. Mine has simply warped after machining and closed into this vacant area-a major design flaw) so if you try to adjust the gib strip properly the head binds at the top and bottom of the travel and is loose in the middle. It is impossible to tram the head. You can tram the head in one position but if you move the head up or down its out of tram. I noticed this within 2 weeks of receiving the mill. Numerous emails, phone calls, emailing pictures of measurements etc over months has simply left me with claims of denials of any problem from this bloke. He sells on eBay and Gumtree too.

So short of small claims court I'm screwed and I've been advised that my success in a court would be iffy due to the fact that this parameter is not specifically identified as meeting a standard in the "inspection" certificate that accompanies the mill. Even though this is not fit for purpose, they don't specifically state a level of accuracy for this part of the mill. So if I was to win the case and I had to in anyway pay return shipping I would probably be better off just trying to roll the dice on buying another column directly from Weiss and just hope I might get lucky on the second one. I have no idea what it would cost for a replacement.

These mills are junk. I can't even flog it off to someone else in good conscience. So it sits there, I use it occasionally but I'd never expect to be able to do accurate work with it. I intended to convert it to a CNC machine but that went out the window a long time ago.

So there is my story. Good luck with your case.

Originally Posted by Hornetb

Good luck with that.

I've got an near copy of this mill, an Optimum BF20L. Bought from Ausino Engineering Supplies in Melbourne - shipped to me in Tassie - that there is the biggest issue, if I could walk through the door I might have got a better/different outcome.

My Z column dovetail sides aren't parallel (ie. it is narrower in the middle like it has a waist-this happens because the middle of the dovetail on these machines is open - so the nut that moves the head can move up and down. Mine has simply warped after machining and closed into this vacant area-a major design flaw) so if you try to adjust the gib strip properly the head binds at the top and bottom of the travel and is loose in the middle. It is impossible to tram the head. You can tram the head in one position but if you move the head up or down its out of tram. I noticed this within 2 weeks of receiving the mill. Numerous emails, phone calls, emailing pictures of measurements etc over months has simply left me with claims of denials of any problem from this bloke. He sells on eBay and Gumtree too.

So short of small claims court I'm screwed and I've been advised that my success in a court would be iffy due to the fact that this parameter is not specifically identified as meeting a standard in the "inspection" certificate that accompanies the mill. Even though this is not fit for purpose, they don't specifically state a level of accuracy for this part of the mill. So if I was to win the case and I had to in anyway pay return shipping I would probably be better off just trying to roll the dice on buying another column directly from Weiss and just hope I might get lucky on the second one. I have no idea what it would cost for a replacement.

If time is still on your side and if I was you, I would take them on in the small claims court.
The mill does not function as intended. The inherent level of accuracy built into the mill (albeit with no specific accuracy specified) is not not as one would expect considering the $$$ outlay....thereby making the mill unacceptable and certainly "not fit for purpose"!!

Remember a claim in the small claims court ( here in SA anyway) does not allow Lawyers etc....but you do need your facts. Eg Expert ( a qualified tradesperson (( eg toolmaker or the like in this case)) is generally suitable) advice is a start.

Also a lot of retailers wont do a damn thing unless they are pressed. Its like your car insurance...dont admit liability and dont do anything until a claim is made in writing.

Then and after all that and no satisfaction then its time to try for the courts to settle it for you.

That's something that should never have got out of the factory.

A defect like that is a deal breaker, it should be replaced.. and this will be a test of the dealer's commitment to the customer, to see if he front's up and does the right thing,

The unfortunate thing is that he is likely to have to shoulder some of the cost of a mistake that should have been picked up and rejected by QC at the factory in China.

I hope that he can find a way to make the manufacturer accountable..

Ray