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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
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    Australia east coast
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    66
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkydivingSteve View Post
    I have checked for that "locating pin" but it doesn't seem to have one. All the collets/chucks/ER32/25/etc's I have have been going hard up to the spindle against the shoulder of the chucks etc and it just won't grab thread at all. The one that does only grabs half a thread, if that. Yes, the drawbar thread is the same thread as the chucks etc and does screw into them all when the drawbar is out of the machine. It's definitely the drawbar length is too short. I would say it is ~18mm short as that's the length of the thread that's on the drawbar which would give me ~18mm of thread to lock the chucks/collets etc with if that makes sense? Thanks for the help!
    This is a perennial problem, I have a couple pieces of tooling where my 'standard' drawbar simply isn't long enough. PITA all right but not a big enough one to bother my overmuch. As for the locating pin, the R8 taper is sort of supposed to have one, but it's useless, often gets sheared off as it's way too weak/small to act as a torque transfer drive pin. So frankly if you don't have it, you're only missing something that has the potential to cause you trouble. My genuine B/Port J head doesn't have one either, it was removed long ago. PDW

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Bendigo
    Age
    46
    Posts
    662

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    Just buy a length of high tensile allthread, cut it to length and make chips. There's absolutely nothing special about a drawbar that you need to obsess over it.

    Thats all I did with mine when I needed an imperial drawbar, mind you mine literally looks like a long bolt. Yours looks slightly more complicated
    www.lockwoodcanvas.com.au

    I will never be the person who has everything, not when someone keeps inventing so much cool new stuff to buy.

    From an early age my father taught me to wear welding gloves . "Its not to protect your hands son, its to put out the fire when u set yourself alight".

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Mission Beach, QLD
    Posts
    36

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    Thanks for all the info all! I will get the drawbar sorted soon, Stuart is trying to find one for me now.


    I was just having another look at the machine (cleaning and oiling the ways, lead screws etc... as I just picked up 20l of Vactra #2 wayoil) when I noticed this in the dove tail of the x axis... It's a big hole/straight through air pocket in the casting . I am a bit worried about that one as it is rather large. Is this "acceptable"? This is my first mill but that just ain't right to me??? What do you all think? I am going to have to strip the whole machine down ASAP to find out what else is lurking in the darkness... I haven't pulled the table off yet as I have been trying to organise the drawbar to check the head is all good before I start pulling it apart etc. Not sure on this one but that is a real bad cast to my eyes that shouldn't have left the factory, even for China... What does everyone else think?

    All info and thoughts are greatly appreciated!

    Regards

    Steve
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  4. #34
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Adelaide
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    54
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    3,148

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    No, that is not right. That needs to go back to the vendor.

    Michael

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    nowra
    Posts
    1,360

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    That's distressing I would tKe it back
    BETTER TO HAVE TOOLS YOU DON'T NEED THAN TO NEED TOOLS YOU DON'T HAVE

    Andre

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Mission Beach, QLD
    Posts
    36

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    Hmmm yeah that's what I think.... I haven't taken anything off yet to check further but if this is what it's like so far... Drawbar cap all cracked, drawbar too short, 5mm chip in the top of the Z axis dovetail, HEAPS of play in the Z axis handle, now this big hole in the tables X axis dovetail and I haven't pulled anything off to check everything else yet either... This ain't right at all for a brand new machine...

    Problem is, I am in Cairns QLD and Titan Machinery is in Tuggarah NSW. Freight is $375 but I shouldn't be responsible for that at all, given the amount of factory defects in the machine. I just sent Stuart an email with the photo's of the new found holes in the dovetail. Fingers crossed he will come to the party.

    Should I contact ebay and PayPal now do you think to let them know what's going on? This is pretty bad for a new machine, no matter what country it's come from, Australian sellers should thoroughly check them all before sending them out I would think... Bugger

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Trundle NSW
    Posts
    223

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    How does something like that get through even the most basic quality control and surely the reseller in Australia must do some inspection of the machine prior to sale. It needs to go straight back to the seller.

    Mark

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Mission Beach, QLD
    Posts
    36

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    I don't think he does check them. Yeah it's has to go back. This is too much of a f)$& around for a brand new machine. off as I should be making parts with it now not wasting hours finding defect after defect ... I've sent him an email with pics directly and through ebay as well. Will try calling him tomorrow to hopefully sort something out. Fingers crossed it goes smoothly or it's ACCC. Don't want to jump the gun yet though but I shouldn't have to do this to begin with. It's up to the seller to check their products thoroughly, surely??? :/

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Australia east coast
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    66
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkydivingSteve View Post
    It's up to the seller to check their products thoroughly, surely??? :/
    Yes, it is - but they don't. They drop-ship in many cases. Then they complain that we buy 'foreign' and are sending them broke. Good thing for them that wharfage is so extortionate or more people would buy direct from o/s. Good luck with it, that machine is clearly defective. Start drafting your letter to the ACCC right now, though, and refer the seller to this forum as well, because I don't think you're going to get an immediate resolution. PDW

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Mission Beach, QLD
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    36

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    The thing is, I bought it from an Australian company to support their "local" business instead of buying direct from Weiss or whoever o/s. So I was trying to do "the right thing" as we don't make anything in Australia anymore (even all our Australian flags at all of our parliament houses are made in China FFS! ). Plus, they will (well should) have insurance for this type of situation anyway.

    Well according to the ACCC it's up to them to replace it if it is a "Major Problem" aka fault or defective and pay all further shipping (sending it back and/or sending out a new one that isn't defective) that's relieving...

    From the ACCC:
    "Returning the product


    You are responsible for returning the product, unless the cost of doing so is significant. In this case, the business must organise and pay for the return or exchange.


    You do not have to return products in the original packaging in order to get a refund."

    http://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/con...replace-refund

    So all things considered that are wrong, faulty, defective and missing from this machine, everyone here agrees that this machine is a "major problem"? Just want to be sure as I am about to start writing the letter.

    Thanks for all the help, info and advice!

    Fingers crossed!
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  11. #41
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    Oct 2011
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    Adelaide
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    54
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    Yes, that is a major problem - don't be put off by suggestions that it could be bogged up or welded and filed back. If it was the last machine tool in the world I would use it but until then...

    Michael

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Canberra, Australia
    Age
    58
    Posts
    316

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    Yep, it's a major problem and I would not accept that machine. Titan needs to replace the machine and pay for all the freight.
    The first step towards knowledge is to know that we are ignorant.

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Tasmania
    Posts
    92

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    Good luck with that.

    I've got an near copy of this mill, an Optimum BF20L. Bought from Ausino Engineering Supplies in Melbourne - shipped to me in Tassie - that there is the biggest issue, if I could walk through the door I might have got a better/different outcome.

    My Z column dovetail sides aren't parallel (ie. it is narrower in the middle like it has a waist-this happens because the middle of the dovetail on these machines is open - so the nut that moves the head can move up and down. Mine has simply warped after machining and closed into this vacant area-a major design flaw) so if you try to adjust the gib strip properly the head binds at the top and bottom of the travel and is loose in the middle. It is impossible to tram the head. You can tram the head in one position but if you move the head up or down its out of tram. I noticed this within 2 weeks of receiving the mill. Numerous emails, phone calls, emailing pictures of measurements etc over months has simply left me with claims of denials of any problem from this bloke. He sells on eBay and Gumtree too.

    So short of small claims court I'm screwed and I've been advised that my success in a court would be iffy due to the fact that this parameter is not specifically identified as meeting a standard in the "inspection" certificate that accompanies the mill. Even though this is not fit for purpose, they don't specifically state a level of accuracy for this part of the mill. So if I was to win the case and I had to in anyway pay return shipping I would probably be better off just trying to roll the dice on buying another column directly from Weiss and just hope I might get lucky on the second one. I have no idea what it would cost for a replacement.

    These mills are junk. I can't even flog it off to someone else in good conscience. So it sits there, I use it occasionally but I'd never expect to be able to do accurate work with it. I intended to convert it to a CNC machine but that went out the window a long time ago.

    So there is my story. Good luck with your case.

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Adelaide
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    2,631

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornetb View Post
    Good luck with that.

    I've got an near copy of this mill, an Optimum BF20L. Bought from Ausino Engineering Supplies in Melbourne - shipped to me in Tassie - that there is the biggest issue, if I could walk through the door I might have got a better/different outcome.

    My Z column dovetail sides aren't parallel (ie. it is narrower in the middle like it has a waist-this happens because the middle of the dovetail on these machines is open - so the nut that moves the head can move up and down. Mine has simply warped after machining and closed into this vacant area-a major design flaw) so if you try to adjust the gib strip properly the head binds at the top and bottom of the travel and is loose in the middle. It is impossible to tram the head. You can tram the head in one position but if you move the head up or down its out of tram. I noticed this within 2 weeks of receiving the mill. Numerous emails, phone calls, emailing pictures of measurements etc over months has simply left me with claims of denials of any problem from this bloke. He sells on eBay and Gumtree too.

    So short of small claims court I'm screwed and I've been advised that my success in a court would be iffy due to the fact that this parameter is not specifically identified as meeting a standard in the "inspection" certificate that accompanies the mill. Even though this is not fit for purpose, they don't specifically state a level of accuracy for this part of the mill. So if I was to win the case and I had to in anyway pay return shipping I would probably be better off just trying to roll the dice on buying another column directly from Weiss and just hope I might get lucky on the second one. I have no idea what it would cost for a replacement.
    If time is still on your side and if I was you, I would take them on in the small claims court.
    The mill does not function as intended. The inherent level of accuracy built into the mill (albeit with no specific accuracy specified) is not not as one would expect considering the $$$ outlay....thereby making the mill unacceptable and certainly "not fit for purpose"!!

    Remember a claim in the small claims court ( here in SA anyway) does not allow Lawyers etc....but you do need your facts. Eg Expert ( a qualified tradesperson (( eg toolmaker or the like in this case)) is generally suitable) advice is a start.

    Also a lot of retailers wont do a damn thing unless they are pressed. Its like your car insurance...dont admit liability and dont do anything until a claim is made in writing.

    Then and after all that and no satisfaction then its time to try for the courts to settle it for you.

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Victoria, Australia
    Age
    69
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    6,125

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    That's something that should never have got out of the factory.

    A defect like that is a deal breaker, it should be replaced.. and this will be a test of the dealer's commitment to the customer, to see if he front's up and does the right thing,

    The unfortunate thing is that he is likely to have to shoulder some of the cost of a mistake that should have been picked up and rejected by QC at the factory in China.

    I hope that he can find a way to make the manufacturer accountable..

    Ray

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