Thread: Another Arbor To Turn - Suggestions Welcome.

Originally Posted by PDW

8mm thread is my guess too.

I agree - I think that the taper is taking a significant amount of drive torque as well as location. This is why I am reluctant to totally dispense with it but I would like to maximise my Z work space as no machine I own has what I'd consider ample (possibly not even sufficient). My current plan is to cut it down to say 20mm and make up the arbor to suit. I may end up making 2 arbors, one 40 taper, the other R8.

I do have an original Bridgeport boring head (no facing) with a 1/2" shank that fits in a collet and this has been satisfactorily rigid, but using the term 'rigid' has very different meanings when one considers a turret mill and a jig borer (or Deckel style toolroom mill). So I am reluctant to just cut off the tapered section in toto and rely on a collet, though this would be simplest.

I see what you mean about your spindle nose. No removing those dogs. I just double-checked mine and fortunately, all 4 of the 40 taper spindle noses have the drive dogs fixed with cap screws. One less problem. There are ample others.

PDW

Peter,

If you were to reduce the height (or depth) of the female taper and therefore reduce some of its holding ability, would a couple of drive dogs be a worthwhile incorporation in your 40 arbor ?

Here's Michael G's photo of a face mill arbor I'm buying from him that has removable drive dogs. Maybe a similar 40 arbor could be modified to drive the Kaiser, something with a shallow SIP taper ring attached to its face??

Hardened 1060 might be less of a problem for you than it was for me.

Bob.

P1020151 (Large).JPG

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

Peter,

If you were to reduce the height (or depth) of the female taper and therefore reduce some of its holding ability, would a couple of drive dogs be a worthwhile incorporation in your 40 arbor ?

Here's Michael G's photo of a face mill arbor I'm buying from him that has removable drive dogs. Maybe a similar 40 arbor could be modified to drive the Kaiser, something with a shallow SIP taper ring attached to its face??

Hardened 1060 might be less of a problem for you than it was for me.

Bob.

P1020151 (Large).JPG

Hmmm. Interesting idea. I assume the current Kaiser female taper sleeve is hard as hell, was planning on cutting it with a cutoff disk in an angle grinder (as I've said, I am a metal butcher). Could see cutting some drive slots in the remainder without too many dramas. They don't have to be a great fit after all.

As for 1060 I expect I'd make the arbor out of good old bright mild or possibly a chunk off of a hydraulic ram as that's what is lying about the shop in the appropriate size. I do have the HP & rigidity to cut pretty hard steel if I have to but then I'd need to find some and spend the money. My Hercus T&C grinder is no better than your old one so setting it up to grind tapers is highly likely to be an exercise in spoilt work and frustration (though I might give the cylindrical grinder attachment a run just to see what happens). Tooling I made over 30 years ago for my small horizontal mill is still in fine shape and it was only 1020 steel machined between centres. I don't think it's all that critical in a home shop as we all tend to baby the tooling so as to not have to make another one.

These Kaiser boring heads are very well made and a lovely piece of machine shop jewellery so it's worth going to some extra effort to get a nice arbor. I'm somewhat reluctant to cut down the taper sleeve but it uses up precious Z space. I need to make up a riser for the mill vertical head but that's a non-trivial project both in pattern making then machining. I think Pete F & Greg both got one with their Aciera F3 machines.

PDW

Rather than a bit of pattern making how about lowering the table if it's an option on your mill? My efforts to do just that extended to purchasing some aluminium tooling plate and badgering the blokes here with questions.

BT

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

Aaron,

Here's a shot of three finishes achieved with my CTC face mill and my description lifted from an old thread....

I passed the cutter over a piece of 4E cast bar..

The first cut was 0.5mm deep with a spindle speed of 100 rpm and a feed rate of 17mm/min. A virtually flawless finish. The next cut was at 160 rpm with a feed of 29mm/min. The final cut was at 860 rpm and 29mm/min feed.. Slow and steady wins the day.

The CCGT09T304HP inserts are pointy. 04 indicates a corner radius of 1/64". Kennametal produce an ....08HP insert with a 1/32" radius. I haven't tried one. A perusal of their catalogue reveals that the 08 is the bluntest radius offered in high positive geometry 80 degree rhombics. They aren't real cheap inserts so my experimentation has been pretty limited. I'm using what was recommended by the Kennametal distributor for a low powered, lightweight lathe.

Soot rubs off on contact whereas blue is transferred. The 30 taper can't be rotated much, maybe a millimeter at best. Depends on the fit of the drive dogs.

Bob.

Attachment 307187

ok thanks. i have a small facing head that i think takes the same inserts. I rarely come across them thru my cheap sources.
the finish looks good any way. I meant the cutting tool on your boring head regarding the radius.
have fun

Originally Posted by azzrock

ok thanks. i have a small facing head that i think takes the same inserts. I rarely come across them thru my cheap sources.
the finish looks good any way. I meant the cutting tool on your boring head regarding the radius.
have fun

That boring bar (or what's left of it) uses the same pointy insert Aaron.

BT

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

That boring bar (or what's left of it) uses the same pointy insert Aaron.

BT

thats even beter

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

Rather than a bit of pattern making how about lowering the table if it's an option on your mill? My efforts to do just that extended to purchasing some aluminium tooling plate and badgering the blokes here with questions.

BT

Already in hand - I have a cast iron plate awaiting machining. That should gain me 125mm extra Z I think at the cost of 25mm of Y travel and limited ability to slew the all angle table in one plane.

All I need to do now is move the boat 3m forward (approx 6.5 tonnes without ballast), move the Woodfast table saw/planer (it's on a pallet base so no dramas), move the planer 8m forward, 3m sideways at right angles then another 3m forward to be behind where the boat is, bolt everything down, then move the boat back into position as it's almost exactly 50mm shorter than the distance from the mezzanine floor to the doors and it'd be good to be able to re-close the doors.

Before I can move the boat I have to make up the partly finished machinery skates to do it, and that is waiting on my buying a big handful of 25mm ID Oilite bushings.

There are now 6 jobs in the planer queue but its Round Tuit has not yet come to fruition. Maybe over winter when it's so cold that paint & epoxy takes forever to dry and I have time for other stuff. Though usually that's my cue to head off somewhere warmer for 3 months.

The other reason for a riser block is, there is only 1 position where the vertical head gear engages the drive from the horizontal spindle gear. Don't know if this is common to the Deckel machines or not. It occurred to me that with a riser block I could have a long intermediate gear, say 100 to 150mm, and thereby increase my Y axis reach quite considerably. But - tricky to make and the vertical head direction of rotation would reverse which leads to other issues like the feed directions reversing as there's a common motor driving everything, all solvable but a question of return on time when I have the Victoria U2 mill as well as the B/port....

PDW

Originally Posted by PDW

Already in hand - I have a cast iron plate awaiting machining. That should gain me 125mm extra Z I think at the cost of 25mm of Y travel and limited ability to slew the all angle table in one plane.

All I need to do now is move the boat 3m forward (approx 6.5 tonnes without ballast), move the Woodfast table saw/planer (it's on a pallet base so no dramas), move the planer 8m forward, 3m sideways at right angles then another 3m forward to be behind where the boat is, bolt everything down, then move the boat back into position as it's almost exactly 50mm shorter than the distance from the mezzanine floor to the doors and it'd be good to be able to re-close the doors.

Before I can move the boat I have to make up the partly finished machinery skates to do it, and that is waiting on my buying a big handful of 25mm ID Oilite bushings.

There are now 6 jobs in the planer queue but its Round Tuit has not yet come to fruition. Maybe over winter when it's so cold that paint & epoxy takes forever to dry and I have time for other stuff. Though usually that's my cue to head off somewhere warmer for 3 months.

The other reason for a riser block is, there is only 1 position where the vertical head gear engages the drive from the horizontal spindle gear. Don't know if this is common to the Deckel machines or not. It occurred to me that with a riser block I could have a long intermediate gear, say 100 to 150mm, and thereby increase my Y axis reach quite considerably. But - tricky to make and the vertical head direction of rotation would reverse which leads to other issues like the feed directions reversing as there's a common motor driving everything, all solvable but a question of return on time when I have the Victoria U2 mill as well as the B/port....

PDW

A dig around on PM located some photos of your Romanian. Now I have an idea of what's going on when you mention the single position gear engagement and if those photos show the table bottomed out, why we both share the same concern about Z consumption !

BT

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

A dig around on PM located some photos of your Romanian. Now I have an idea of what's going on when you mention the single position gear engagement and if those photos show the table bottomed out, why we both share the same concern about Z consumption !

BT

The table is bottomed out, yes. The fixed box table sits at least 100mm lower which is a plus.

That machine is between a Deckel FP1 and FP2 in size, closer to an FP1.

What I'm thinking about is a riser block the same basic configuration as that sliding overarm with the vertical head on it. Put that in place of the VH overarm then mount the original VH unit on top. Can't see why it won't work if I can do my part. That project is also on the list - a fair way down it.

Of course it would be a lot simpler to make a riser up and mount the spare B/port J head on it but that R8 taper doesn't really do anything for me these days. I'm going to put the original 2MT M head back on the B/port and sell it, most likely. One of these days.

PDW