Thread: Advice on Tap and Die Set

The taps that you are looking at are carbon steel,they would probably be ok for brass and mild steel or any soft materials depending on the amount of holes you are going to tap.
The better but more costly alternative would be to look for HSS taps these will last you a lot longer and will cut all the materials you are likely to tap.
I would look at ebay world wide particularly GB and US for metric and imperial taps in HSS most times the prices are quite reasonable compared to local.
You dont have to buy your taps in sets of 3 you can purchase seperately.
Make sure that you use a good cutting compound when threading exspecially with the harder materials.

Another little tip when your drilling your tapping drill hole depending on the final use for your item drill your hole a touch bigger,will make it a lot easier to tap.

Would also suggest to look on the web for different sites regards taping and threading by hand for suggestion on tap and die types and method of work.

If your tapping stainless you need absolutely sharp tools. It's a b*td. High Speed Steel is your best option.

Do some reading online on taps and dies.

There are 3 profiles of tap, taper intermediate and bottom.. Through holes are cut with a taper as they are easier to align and cut more gradually. Bottom taps are for tapping to the bottom of a blind hole. There are spiral taps which have spiral fluts which may or may not help with chip extraction depending on many things.

I think Sutton make them. Suttons make drills and they are good quality. Probably not cheap though.

If your fair dinkum you roll aluminium threads which needs different taps and dies. Most people don't bother.

I've never tried to tap annealed tool steel.

For male threads if you have a reasonable lathe a coventry die chaser and some jaws makes the work faster and easier, but they aren't cheap.

Get some good tapping lubricant also. I used to use a green one but I think you can't get it anymore. Makes the work go a LOT easier. Just wait till you break your first tap.

I used to tap stainless all the flamin time, and gee I hate it... Brass and mild steel are a doddle by comparison..

There is a book available for free download here, it covers dies and taps quite comprehensively.

Originally Posted by thumbsucker

I need a set that will last and that can be relied upon cut brass, stainless and annealed tool steel.

Pretty well all sets will cut threads in these materials, will they last? read on.

Looking on ebay there are new and old taps and dies, I am favoring new as I wish to have a metric set.

What you won't see on ebay is if they are chipped or cracked.

What is a good new brand name set, what should I avoid.

There are brand names like Sutton and P&N but even here you need to watch out. I bought a 40 piece metric set some time ago that had a brand name printed on the cardboard cover of the box but the individual pieces were not stamped with the brand name and the set looks very much like all the other chinese 40 piece metric sets.

I see some advertise as being high carbon steel and others claim to be tungsten. Is there an advantage to ether.

Carbon steel will chip and break (possibly even if dropped) much more easily than tungsten - These are usually something like an M2 tool steel.

What do folks think of this set:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/M-E-model-eng...QQcmdZViewItem

One good thing you can see about these dies is they have a slot cut into them which means they are adjustable. This is very useful for making tight or loosely fitting threads especially when you are trying to fit a thread made by you with a threaded piece made by someone else. The taps come in 3s (tapered, semi-taper and bottoming - I presume you know what these are for?) which is also good. You will still need a tap handle and 2 different die handles - quality ones of these are not cheap.

I have cheap small 24 pieces BSW and a 40 piece metric set both made of carbon steel which gives me one of everything in a common range. Being carbon steel the small taps in my sets snap easily, like carrots. As they break I replace them with their respective 3 set so I have a reasonable 3 set of most small taps. With dies, the cutting edges chip or snap and they also can break if they are dropped and land on something hard. As I am still only a relatively light user so I can't really justify tungsten. I'm also lucky that I have access to a fully set of adjustable dies and all manner of BSP, BA, NPT etc threading gear at work but if I didn't have access to these I would think seriously about buying a branded tungsten.

Another weakness with the little cheap sets is cutting 12 mm or 1/2" threads with the small tap and die handles provided - one really needs to step up to the bigger sized handles when cutting threads of that size.

Finally, I've found a relatively safe way of tapping brass and ally with small taps and that is using a clutched portable drill. Set a light clutch (setting 3 on my Triton drill for small taps and maybe 4 or 5 for larger taps) to start and as it makes its way in increase the setting 1 or 2 notches. The good thing about using the drill is the forward reverse drive meaning you can tap back and forth a few times and then back it all the way out and blow out all the swarf with a compressor. Not clearing swarf from the hole is one reason for breaking taps. Use proper tapping lube, tapping a 6 mm brass plate with a 5 mm tap turns into a 20 second job with the drill as opposed to a couple of minutes by hand. With Ally its even faster especially if you have the exact right size hole.

That's another thing, you really need to have the right sized bit to drill the right sized holes for imperial and metric. Sure you can tap a metric thread in a hole made by imperial size drill but after snapping one too many taps I went out and bought a set of metric bits.

item that should be included in our yet to be established library - Big Shed's link on taps and dies.

I have slowly purchased HSS taps and dies in sizes that I commonly use. HSS is the nirvana of taps IMO, but very expensive. As far as sets on e-bay are concerned...... the minimax sets from the minimax distributor seem to be the best bang for buck by a long shot, although the link points to a larger set in NF only.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/MINIMAX-Tap-D...QQcmdZViewItem

I am yet to see taps and dies out of China that are up to scratch.

Having said that HSS are the nirvana of taps, I must also say that I have several sets of tungsten steel taps from an e-bay dealer in the UK, that have proven to be excellent. (sets meaning sets of 3 for a given size). They seem to be of the same quality as from the link you originally posted.

Don't do what I did years ago, and waste your money on a chepo set. Taps and dies are one of the things as far as tools go, that simply will not perform unless they are of decent quality. You may end up throwing the cheapo's in the bin in subdued anger as I did.

Tungsten alloyed bits are preferred by a friend of mine for tapping hard steels - they seem to last OK & resist casual breakage. He gets all his from 'Coventry Fasteners' - a chain of industrial suppliers.

Handy Hint #67 - when tapping a hole, use a drill press to keep the tap at 90 degrees to the job. You can even buy a model maker's arbor press that has a chuck for holding very small taps -
http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares...oduct&ID=83146
or
http://www.ares-server.com/Ares/Ares...oduct&ID=60627
this mob also sell miniature taps, dies & screws.

I have the HSS version of this one and the smaller set HSS of this one. They cut stainless like butter for me. Haven't broken any yet. They are ridiculously useful to have.

I'm with Fossil on this. Personally I say buy a decent tap and die handle/wrench to suit the die and tap sizes you want. P&N, Starrett, Moore and Wright all make nice ones to use. A T bar wrench is very convenient to use and lets you have good feel. The large tap wrenches by P&N are great for the over 12mm taps where you might need a decent amount of leverage. I have tap wrenches by all of those manufacturers and whilst the Starrett is the most nicely finished the others are equally as strong and do the job as well. The chinese stuff does not come close, the metal for the jaws often cracking or flogging out in short order.

I have a very nice large metric P&N tap and die set (6-24mm) and two crapola chinese sets. They are like chalk and cheese.

Personally I say buy Sutton/P&N, Osborn, SKF, Dormer etc as you need them in the sizes you need. Reality is you won't need anything above probably M8 for modelling so buy a couple of Sutton 3pce tap sets in M3, 4, 5 and 6 and corresponding dies and with your decent quality tap and die handles you will be right. Just add what you need as you go from that point. reality is that you will break plenty of small taps as you get used to the feel.....make sure you use Trefolex or Tapmagic and your tools will last longer and break less.

As I work mainly with japanese cars (particularly Toyota) I regularly buy taps in unusual pitches, very few people can afford large sets from a quality maker that covers fine intermediate fine and coarse.

On another note, I do believe most modellers use the BA thread series, although there is a metric standard for modellers which covers really small sizes such as 1mm, 1.2mm, 1.4mm, 1.5mm, 1.8mm, 2mm, 2.2mm etc.
The beauty of building your own set is that you can get the stuff you need for the task not what the set deliver.

Anyway check this site https://www.bolt.com.au/index.php?cPath=2749 for a look at the various prices, make sure you are sitting when you look at the price of HSS tap and die sets

Helmut, you'll get HSS P&N and Sutton from Coventry Fasteners. As an indication I recently bought a M5 HSS for $16.

(then a few months later I needed a M5 and forgetting I'd already bought one previously I got another I've got my Dad's HSS and still sharp as - they last.)

Originally Posted by hux

... reality is that you will break plenty of small taps as you get used to the feel.....

My sentiments exactly. Start with some sacrificial cheapos, just for practise, and then advance to better quality. Individual pilot drill and tap sets usually have about 65% engagement, which develops full strength in similar materials; the points don't add much to the strength. Full overlap is useful when one material is significantly softer, e.g. steel screw in aluminium or plastic.

Joe

A few points to note.
Good advice in the earlier posts.
The set you are looking at is for ME threads, a thread which is used by modelmakers and few others. You would be better buying a metric set (M3 to M10) to start with, don't worry about the quality at first as you will probably break a lot of taps until you learn to use them properly and the only way you can do that is to practice.
The seller of the set in question is a reputable merchant, I have bought quite a bit from him over the years.
Don't start your threading journey with SS! Practice on brass and mild steel with a cheap set, then buy individual HSS taps and dies for particular projects as you need them.
Your location of "nowhere" makes it difficult to advise on suppliers, however, if you're in Sydney, Graham MacDonald in Girraween has a great range at excellent prices. They are engineers suppliers but will sell by the piece, carbon steel or HSS (there is a great price differential). They will also GIVE you a chart with all the drill sizes (tapping and clearance) for just about every thread devised by man or machine. Steer clear of used taps and dies, unless they are dirt cheap, and you want to play around without risking a lot of money.
Get a good tap wrench and button die holder, although the ones supplied with a set will be OK to start with.
Good luck
Cheers'
Graeme

Thank for all you advice.

The message is clear, but ONE cheap tap and die, learn to use it and then when it breaks no big loss.

Buy a drill bit to match the size of my tap

Then buy tap's and die's indiviudally as I need them, and not to bother with whole sets.

I think I will stick with Sutton or P&N brands, and with HSS.

Get a good lubricants - Any brands that people can recommend?

Question, what is the difference between course and fine dies, and what uses do they serve?

Big shed thanks for the link, I am reading as I go.

Originally Posted by thumbsucker

Get a good lubricants - Any brands that people can recommend?

TS, next time you're up here I'll give you some cutting compound, have enough to last me a lifetime, so I won't miss some of it , just bring a small container to some in.

I'll also give you a run down on how to use them and the do's and don'ts.