Thread: What beginner tools to get for first mill

A wiggler

*edit* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiggler_(tool)
The top one. I dont agree with some of Wiki has to say about the other sorts, but wigglers are cheap and don't use much Z.

Originally Posted by oohsam

I was almost settled on a parlec vise, but I'm not so sure now.

Looks like a copy of the Kurt, where are you able to get one from? I have a 5" Glacern, just like the one you pictured, it is the best vice i have ever used.

Ew

Originally Posted by Ueee

Looks like a copy of the Kurt, where are you able to get one from? I have a 5" Glacern, just like the one you pictured, it is the best vice i have ever used.

Ew

From the States.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...PMPXNO=9200809


I have a US post box so I can send stuff there and then get it all shipped together. Saves on shipping and lets me buy things that companies wont normally ship to aus.

Most of the shipping within the US is free also.

Cheers

Ok,
I need some help. I've gotten myself confused.

I have in my cart a full set of ER32 Collets.
Also some end mills, and a clamping kit to suit my table (5/8 - 16mm)

Im about to add a 76mm fly cutter which is listed as MT3

Question is, I have an MT4. Does this matter or will the collets make it fit?

I was under the impression that once you get a collet set, it does not matter what Taper you get...or am I totally wrong.

Originally Posted by oohsam

Ok,
I need some help. I've gotten myself confused.

I have in my cart a full set of ER32 Collets.
Also some end mills, and a clamping kit to suit my table (5/8 - 16mm)

Im about to add a 76mm fly cutter which is listed as MT3

Question is, I have an MT4. Does this matter or will the collets make it fit?

I was under the impression that once you get a collet set, it does not matter what Taper you get...or am I totally wrong.

You are totally wrong.

Collets hold straight shank cutters etc. Therefore you get a 4MT collet chuck and you can use straight shank cutters up to the max collet diameter without swapping out the collet chuck, just the collet.

If you get a taper shank tool then the taper MUST match the machine taper (or smaller and use an adaptor) and if it's anything other than say a TS drill bit it also must have a threaded shank so it can be retained by a drawbar.

So you can use a 3MT fly cutter, but you'll need to buy a 3MT-4MT sleeve and cut the end off it or bugger about with a mini bolt or similar to retain it. My advice is, KISS. Don't buy any taper shank tooling unless it matches your machine taper, exception as noted TS drill bits.

Nothing stopping you buying or making a parallel shank fly cutter using say a 19mm shank. I'd go for the biggest shank size the collet chuck will take. Fly cutters aren't exactly rocket science to make.....

PDW

Originally Posted by PDW

You are totally wrong.

Collets hold straight shank cutters etc. Therefore you get a 4MT collet chuck and you can use straight shank cutters up to the max collet diameter without swapping out the collet chuck, just the collet.

If you get a taper shank tool then the taper MUST match the machine taper (or smaller and use an adaptor) and if it's anything other than say a TS drill bit it also must have a threaded shank so it can be retained by a drawbar.

So you can use a 3MT fly cutter, but you'll need to buy a 3MT-4MT sleeve and cut the end off it or bugger about with a mini bolt or similar to retain it. My advice is, KISS. Don't buy any taper shank tooling unless it matches your machine taper, exception as noted TS drill bits.

Nothing stopping you buying or making a parallel shank fly cutter using say a 19mm shank. I'd go for the biggest shank size the collet chuck will take. Fly cutters aren't exactly rocket science to make.....

PDW

ohhh snap.
Yes I got it now. Thank you for clarifying.

I do believe my mill came with a 4MT collet chuck already.

Originally Posted by oohsam

From the States.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?P...PMPXNO=9200809


I have a US post box so I can send stuff there and then get it all shipped together. Saves on shipping and lets me buy things that companies wont normally ship to aus.

Most of the shipping within the US is free also.

Cheers

That vice weighs 75lbs.....going to be pricey to get it over here. I really don't think you need a 6" vice either-4" or 5" would be more than enough for your machine.
If your going to spend that much i'd get a Kurt or glacern, not sure where that Teco is made....this is the 4" version of the vice i have http://www.glacern.com/gsv_440

Ew

Originally Posted by Ueee

That vice weighs 75lbs.....going to be pricey to get it over here. I really don't think you need a 6" vice either-4" or 5" would be more than enough for your machine.
If your going to spend that much i'd get a Kurt or glacern, not sure where that Teco is made....this is the 4" version of the vice i have http://www.glacern.com/gsv_440

Ew

Teco bought Parlec, so they are pretty much the same vice.
Taiwanese made.

Looks like the glacern is pretty much a Shars vice.

Where'd you get it?
Cheers.

Originally Posted by oohsam

Teco bought Parlec, so they are pretty much the same vice.
Taiwanese made.

Looks like the glacern is pretty much a Shars vice.

Where'd you get it?
Cheers.

The Glacern is an American "made" vice, i believe they use Vertex castings but all the work is done in the states.

Mine is a 5" inch, it came pretty much unused from a member that sold most if not all of his gear last year. I think i said it before but it is the best vice i have ever used.....

Ew

Originally Posted by Ueee

The Glacern is an American "made" vice, i believe they use Vertex castings but all the work is done in the states.

Mine is a 5" inch, it came pretty much unused from a member that sold most if not all of his gear last year. I think i said it before but it is the best vice i have ever used.....

Ew

haha, So If i understand correctly, Its a good vice? lol.

Yeah, I think they are cast in taiwan, and then sent to the US where they 'fix em up' to much tighter tolerances.

Looks like a top vice...I"ll do some more research. I do like it. You're prob right about the size, Might just go for a 4"

CHeers

Originally Posted by oohsam

ohhh snap.
Yes I got it now. Thank you for clarifying.

I do believe my mill came with a 4MT collet chuck already.

If that collet chuck is anything like the collet chuck that came with the HM46, and Hafco still sells as a set, thsis is not an ER collet chuck. It has a limited range of non-standard collets.
The good thing about the ER collets is that they increase in size by 1mm and can grip a 1mm range, so 1 (or 2) mm to 20mm in 1 mm steps.

A 75mm flycutter is fairly big, mine is 2 1/2" (63mm) and it is a fair size. I also have a set of 3 small straight shank fly cutters (19, 28, 38mm) and they come in handy at times.

I also have a couple of face milling cutters, one 2" and one 2 1/2"

My tooling is mostly R8, with some straight shanks that go in the R8 ER chuck, which lives in the spindle a lot of the time as I also have a 10mm drill chuck with a straight shank that goes in there.

Originally Posted by oohsam

haha, So If i understand correctly, Its a good vice? lol.

Yeah, I think they are cast in taiwan, and then sent to the US where they 'fix em up' to much tighter tolerances.

Looks like a top vice...I"ll do some more research. I do like it. You're prob right about the size, Might just go for a 4"

CHeers

For a mill your size, I'd get a 4" vise. I have a 5" vise on my B/port and it is a lot higher and bulkier than the 4" of the same make that I also have.

My 4" and 5" vise are Taiwanese and I've had them many, many years. They are OK but not great; I have the soft hammer tap down pat. I also have a 6" Chinese vise as supplied with the H&F mills. This is a total POS which is why I have it - my machinist at work threw it out when he uncrated the mill and bought a decent one. I think RC also has one and used it as an exercise in scraping and alignment. Mine is excellent as a project source for this because it's so far out that I can't see how even I could make it worse.

So get a good vise, you'll use it a lot for a long time.

PDW

Originally Posted by texx

this is the vice i put on mine http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/V305

I have one of these on my 45 mill (same as yours). They are plenty big enough and certainly heavy enough to get sick of lifting.. Generally they are pretty good. I have two of them. One is finished nicely, the other not so nice. Both clamp equally well and only require a small tap from time to time to seat the part.

For tool holders I purchased a complete set of Tormach TTS tools. The quick change is wonderful. I set up my tools, and swap them in and out. Takes less than a minute to do a tool change. I keep some common tools setup and literally flip them in and out as needed. You should really consider this for your ER holding. TTS take ER collets and they have a 3/4 shank. I try to get all my tooling with a 3/4 shank making tool changes really fast. I purchased the TTS holders before my mill had arrived. Never looked back. You can get non-Tormach branded ER32 TTS holders on Ebay (bsello168) for around $200 for 10 inc shipping.

For a fly cutter I went with a Tormach SuperFly, which is a nice indexable fly cutter. I also grabbed a Glacern Facemill, which is also a nice piece of kit.

As far as additional tooling you might want to get a vice work stop. They are handy if you are making a few parts and do not want to have to zero every time you swap parts. The things I could not live without that go beyond basic tooling include DRO (see my previous thread), DTI (Interapid) and my Haimer 3d Taster. Indexed boring bars are also very tasty..

A few pics:
IMG_5708.JPG IMG_5724.JPG two_vertex_vices_sized.jpg er25_work_holding.jpg IMG_1936.JPG

// end brain-dump - note the TTS pic has an part in the ER collet. Not the best photo but gives you an idea.

Originally Posted by variant22

I have one of these on my 45 mill (same as yours). They are plenty big enough and certainly heavy enough to get sick of lifting.. Generally they are pretty good. I have two of them. One is finished nicely, the other not so nice. Both clamp equally well and only require a small tap from time to time to seat the part.

For tool holders I purchased a complete set of Tormach TTS tools. The quick change is wonderful. I set up my tools, and swap them in and out. Takes less than a minute to do a tool change. I keep some common tools setup and literally flip them in and out as needed. You should really consider this for your ER holding. TTS take ER collets and they have a 3/4 shank. I try to get all my tooling with a 3/4 shank making tool changes really fast. I purchased the TTS holders before my mill had arrived. Never looked back. You can get non-Tormach branded ER32 TTS holders on Ebay (bsello168) for around $200 for 10 inc shipping.


// end brain-dump - note the TTS pic has an part in the ER collet. Not the best photo but gives you an idea.

Awesome.
I've never seen the TTS stuff. I had a quick look, looks like it's only suited for Morse Taper 3 and R8...Nothing for MT4...We have the same style mill, I'm thinking maybe you have an R8...

Screen shot 2014-02-25 at 12.08.57 AM.png