Thread: Brunswick lathe

What do u know, just found a foto of its bigger brother.

Very similar except the foto version is 360mm Swing x 1000mm Between Centres.

Couple of minor differences like gear selector on bench. The one I looked at had 2.

32mm Spindle Bore. 2MT Tailstock. 59-1150 RPM.

Well, that price for a 30yr old lathe of Chinese origin sounds steep to me.

A plus would be the cast iron base- I am a fan of mass

What do you mean by chain drive? does the motor drive the gearbox via an actual chain instead of a belt?

Also, as you pointed out, the current motor needs replacing. Since the original motor was three phase its even money the coolant pump is too.

The speed range seems a bit slow at the top end. The oft-repeated wisdom is that it takes higher rpm to run carbide tooling. (not that you have to by any means).

What kind of QCTP, and are there lots of holders?

Engine lathe= what we think of when we think "metal lathe". As distinct from the other types like spinning lathes, watchmaker's, second op, etc

Greg

Older chinese lathe is not always a bad thing.
A friend of mine in Townsville had a Chinese lathe of fairly old vintage and was more a heavy industrial ,rather than a hobby lathe ,it was well a head of anything I had seen from Colchester and the other well known names .It had variable longditudinal feed which was operated by a hand wheel ,you could increase or decrease the feed rate with out stopping and changing gears.
An Indexing gear on the spindle drive to enable multi-start threads and a power feed tail stock .
He operated his own machine shop and had a number of defence contracts refurbishing parts and other equipment.
He reckoned the Chinese lathe was one of the best he had ever used and he wasn't a young man either had many years experience in machining and engineering .

Kev.

Well yeah, but we are talking about a hobby sized lathe here. To be clear, I don't have any particular axe to grind with the Chinese-rather with the importers who specify and accept crap from their Chinese vendors.

Now, an older machine was probably built to a higher standard given the general state of business ethics in the 70's, but on the other hand it will have suffered some wear, and there would be no hope of sourcing parts.

Finally, while I understand your point, Colchesters are hardly the high water mark of the machine tool builder's art.

What do you mean by chain drive? does the motor drive the gearbox via an actual chain instead of a belt?

Yes its running a chain instead. Its quite meaty, dont think I would break it in a hurry. I only prob there of course is where would the weak link be if the worse happened.

[quote]The speed range seems a bit slow at the top end. The oft-repeated wisdom is that it takes higher rpm to run carbide tooling. (not that you have to by any means).
[QUOTE]

Yes from reading around I was thinking the rpm at the top end seemed a bit slow.

What kind of QCTP, and are there lots of holders?

Oops just did a heap of searching and think I stuffted up on that one. Must just be a standard tool post. Shows I am a real novice when it come to lathes, but am working to improve my knowledge on this one.

I wonder if that chain drive is original? I am only aware of chains being used on one short-lived South Bend lathe made in (I think) 1926, although there were no doubt other. That chains are so uncommon speaks to their suitability I think. Surface finish would be affected by the chain vibration, although that's perhaps a moot point for your intended work?

Last year I had a look at a new 14 X 40 available locally and was pretty impressed. It came with good tooling and was ready to go. Having some experience with machinery overhaul I can report that I wouldn't spend 2/3 the new price for something 30 years old*, especially since you already know you'll have motor issues.

* unless it was something really rare, really special, or something I just burn to own.

Two examples-I was given a geared head drill press last week, free. It needs work, and even free it may not be good value. I expect it will eat up a week of time and maybe $700 in parts to restore (IF all the gears are OK). When repaired it will drill holes just like a new belt drive one that I could buy today for about $800.

I paid too much for a 45 year old lathe a couple of years ago and I am still re-building it. It is though of such rare quality that it's a worthwhile project.

If I had to do it again I would buy new. All of my machines were purchased in crap condition. As a result my primary hobbies aren't metal working or woodworking, but machinery rebuilding.

gregoryq sounds like u have built up your collection of gear the hard way.

Yeah the price the guy is after is a real turnoff, especially considering the "unknown factor" when buying secondhand and of course the hidden costs of getting things up to speed.

Surface finish would be affected by the chain vibration, although that's perhaps a moot point for your intended work?

At this point in time a mirror finish on a job isnt a priority. Just make/fix an item well enough to do its job. Really dont have time to make it ready for show & shine.

Yeah it's been a long road, and I reckon that I'll refurb a few more before I'm done. It all started with wanting a good cup of coffee, and restoring an old Swiss-built espresso machine. I thought it would have been easier with a lathe to make those hard to get parts...the rest is just the long slide down the slippery slope.

Something else that springs to mind after re-reading your first post is the lack of cross slide power feed. I'll bow out now with the observation that the price seems out of range for that machine. Good luck in your search, or in beating the seller's price down severely.

Gday Jatt,

I reckon $3100 is way too much. I think you would be better off getting something new for that money, hands down. You could choose from a lot of lathes at Hare and Forbes for that price.

I got my lathe from my TAFE workshop when they sold off their old ones and replaced them with hare and forbes ones. The hare and forbes machines are very smooth in comparison, but mines still does a wonderful job. However, I only paid $350 for it. Its a 250mm by 600mm Indian made machines, with powered cross and longitudinal feeds. It has a quick change gear box, 3 phase donk, does 45 - 2000rpm and weighs in at 240kgs. It came with faceplace, 4 jaw, travelling and fixed steadies and a small collection of tooling.

Someone else put an add up on here from somewhere in WA that was flogging off a heap of old lathes recently, think they were around the $1000 - $1500 mark. Still way cheaper than what old mate wants for the lathe you are talking about.

I reckon second hand lathes are good, but they have to be the right price. If you are patient you will find one thats good for much less money than that. If you are not patient, id buy from hare and forbes.

Originally Posted by gregoryq

Well yeah, but we are talking about a hobby sized lathe here. To be clear, I don't have any particular axe to grind with the Chinese-rather with the importers who specify and accept crap from their Chinese vendors.

Now, an older machine was probably built to a higher standard given the general state of business ethics in the 70's, but on the other hand it will have suffered some wear, and there would be no hope of sourcing parts.

Finally, while I understand your point, Colchesters are hardly the high water mark of the machine tool builder's art.

They may not be the very best but there are a lot of them around and there has been some exemplary work done on them over the years .
In a pinch I would rather a Colchester in fair to good condition than some the stuff that H&F are peddling .

As far as top speeds on lathes go ,,,,Most of the older lathes don't have the higher speeds of the more recent machines as carbide tips weren't available or used as much and mainly for use on high speed production machines .
My Edgwick tool room lathe which is of early to mid 50's vintage has a top speed of 850 rpm ,and I doubt it ever had a replacable carbide tipped tool used in it.
When I get it serviceable I'll probabaly only ever use HSS. I reckon HSS is better value , you can get a lot more life out of a 4" piece of 1/2 HSS that a replacable tip at around 10 bucks each.
I've got HSS from 1/8" up to 1" if I spent every day for the rest of my life machining I would never wear it out .
The only advantage I see with carbide tips is it takes no time to replace then when they are shot , unless you are knocking out hundreds of parts time is not an issue with a hobby .
I've a couple of indexable carbide tools for my mill which I use a fair bit , but I hardly ever use replacable carbide tooling on my lathe . I was given 20 odd packets of carbide tips a year or so ago and I only use them in my milling cutters , although I did make a holder for the lathe just to try them out ,but don't use it much at all.

Kev.

Didnt bother trying to talk the guy down on the Brunswick.

Checked out an interesting machine last nite. Its a Mars Jupiter. Found a reference to a Mars owned by a forum member (matthew_g) from a couple of years ago.

Apparently they were made in Brissy around the WWW2 era. Its got a bed of around 1000 mm long, so its large enuf for me.

Has some quite a bit of play in the tailstock end and lot of "wear steps" I think they are called near the chuck end (at the back).

Its 3ph so am gunna fish thru the shed 1st for a single ph motor before I even consider it.

Looking at $1000 bucks.

So far from what I can gather there wernt a lot of these made.

Jatt I am not sure how good the Mars lathes were and at $1000 it does not seem a particularly good deal going by your description.. You could pick up a much better machine at auction, especially since you live so close to the machine tool capital of Australia.. Even up here in the machine tool desert I saw a nice small ex-govt Nuttall sell for $1000...I kick myself every time I think of it as it was a bargain given the condition it was in...

Bit of info here about Mars Practical Machinist - Largest Manufacturing Technology Forum on the Web - View Single Post - Australian made machine tools

G'Day Jatt,
Was just reading your post and came accross your reference to me..(THANKS) I feel special now....lol...
Even though I cried when I sold my MARS lathe, The best thing I ever did was buy a new one.
I purchased an AL340a from H/F, at the time it was on special and I think I got it for
around $4700 and I conned them for $150 worth of tooling,Funny that the tooling was for my Mill not the new lathe..lol..
With a few minor adjustments The lathe is very accurate and extremely smooth to
operate.
With a price range of around $3000 you could pick up a very reasonable first machine
that would do you for quite a few years while you are learning.
Hope this helps on your quest.
Matt..