Thread: Buried spitfires in Burma?

Originally Posted by nearnexus

That's the way I understood it too, but much of the stuff stayed in service.

Eg the three Australian lend lease Kenworth M1A1 heavy wreckers (one of which my father was assigned to in WW2) appear to have been sold off after the war.

A lot of this stuff was war surplus regardless of where it came from, and was just scrapped adnauseum.

eg. all the big workshops/hangers on the NT strips at Gorrie etc were all scrapped and now only the strip and a concrete slab remains.

Rob

Plus literally hundreds and hundreds of rusted out 44 gall drums,[205l] after the war trucks shipped them back down from NT [seen pics of trailer loads of empties].the remaining drums must have been damaged and litter the bush at most of the sites of these road side air strips.
Re Kenworths,the M!A! was also built by Ward la France same pattern as they were the only ones that could lift tow the big Dia Ts and the NA Macks.
Medium artillery regiments used the NA Macks towing 5.5 howitzers and the L A D attached had a Ward L F wrecker[LAD light aid detachment]
The Dia T were used towing 60 ton Rogers trailers for tanks.The truck had a large ballast weight over the dual tandem drive.
During the war [ww2]Dia ts would ship large navy gun barrels after refurbishment at Bendigo Ordnance factory[running a shuttle] up and down.they used to have 2 pushingand 2 pulling the gun trailers [these barrels were entrusted to army to ship as the railways might have rough handled them and due their size.
In the early 1970's I was at Monegeeta Vic where the trials and proving wing of the army was based.They had a Diamond T there.used mainly for load testing draw bars. a dynamometer was attached to the tow hitch and used the truck as an anchor for the pull test.This unit was like a large spring balance [like what you weigh your favorite fish catch with] and was very heavy.The old Diamond became my baby,no one seemed to love it.After i cleaned her up and showed that I took an interest in it I was given a key to one of the old Armco hangers[same company that made the hangers made armco railing on roads we are familiar with]that used to be at the rear of the camp.When I asked what the key was for was told that the C O had seen me in the truck and noticed how it was looking,told the Q sgt to give me the key.
Opening the ''aladdins cave'' where I found a complete set of spares for the old girl.Mainly all boxed and crated and tar paper and grease proof and tropical prepared wraps.
In one of the crates i found a radiator that i soon had cleaned up and installed had to use overhead crane to change it it was ''heavy'' Cast iron top tank and lower tank and core bolted on.Every now and again when had spare time would add more bits to the old girl.
Sadly I dont know of its demise or where it went but who ever got it was on a winner.I moved on to Melbourne where went to work on the A NA RE Larcs maintained and operated by army personnel to do the summer resupply to Antartica.Larcs are like a big army duck boats with wheels we had 5 tonners the us army had 15 tonners made ours look like row boats. Think that is about enough dribble for now Cheers all.John.

Originally Posted by Steamwhisperer

Count me in Ray.
Anything for history

Phil

Me too when are we going? Out west from Larrimah be a good start.Was as far south as the rail went from Darwin.Lots of stuff in back yard of the pub there been hauled in. Beware of the pubs pony though steals cans of beer and drinks them if you distracted.Was an air base and stores there as they didnt know how far the Japs would come if they landed on Aussie soil.Was there in 1988 and stories from the locals said was plenty of stuff in the bush.We were there for 3 days behind a convoy of army trucks that did the first army convoy Adelaide to Darwin since WW2 ending.We were the recovery and repair team tagging along. That trip is a chapter of a book alone Cheers all. J.

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

No problem with any of the above, its the gullibility of people who accept myth as fact that I find strange. The practicality of covering all those planes in grease and then burying them puts the whole thing in the myth department.

I see your distinction there. In the Oak Island affair people knew something had happened there but had no idea what it was. The site was noticed due to a slight subsidence of the soil and a very old pulley arrangement mounted above in a tree, if my memory serves.

One situation I just don't understand is why someone would want to be the 2679th person to climb Mt Everest, or is it the 5th person to do so with webbed toes or something? Give the poor thing a break and stop leaving your junk strewn all over her slopes is my opinion.

Covering them in grease then burying them? The armed forces have been known to do some silly things at times. When you are under that sort of discipline you have to do what you are told. Just takes one officers word. Who knows? My main concern with this sort of situation is the quantity of metals we are losing. We will run out one day. Was reading yesterday about the pipeline from natural gas platform to be built off WA, to Darwin will take 300,000 tonnes of steel. This however is only a trifle compared to all the shipping lost at sea. I would still want more than a myth to spend money for recovery tho.

Dean

Originally Posted by th62

Sorry, that should be just north of Adelaide River not Pine Creek as I stated. Surplus equipment in the Australian defence forces? after 25 years service I can tell you there is no such thing as surplus equipment: boots, uniforms, guns ammo, vehicles and especially troops were always in short supply. The only thing we had plenty of were officers - lucky us. I can remember my old man telling me he trained with a broomstick in lieu of a rifle during the war and once in the thick of it had to resort to using a liberated Italian rifle - somethings never change. Those who can remember Alby Mangels adventures, will probably remember the US military base in the Pacific abandoned after the war that Alby came across. The island was littered with trucks and jeeps and there was a warehouse containing whitegoods and other equipment. The island did look like it had been ransacked a number of times by illegal visitors over the years. Alby liberated a roll of copper wire to fund his adventures. So I guess hidden treasures from the war do exist, although I suspect most have been discovered and plundered by now.

Logistics won the war for the Yanks.Every island push back up the SW Pacific was allocated a certain amount of scale to reclaim each island in turn.
Every detail planned to the nut and bolt.Men ,vehicles rations ammo etc etc.
If by chance an island was by passed that extra equipment was abandoned and or dumped in the sea.
the U S military planners used to have a life expectancy on all things even men.allegedly a marine 14 minutes in battle.trucks jeeps 30 min if they fulfilled that role that was it
Nothing stops the U S war machine once it gets going.
Those abandoned islands with equipment there are just rusty piles hardly resembling their former glory 60 plus years of plundering and sea air have taken their toll.
Believe it or not after a island re take after the beach head was secured the Yanks had mobile Coca cola bottling plants that were brought ashore and commenced bottling.They cant survive with out their Coke and ice cream.
One of my old bosses was a Warrant Officer in Moratai and Borneo, a workshop WO who was a tank specialist.He served from 1939-1946.Was in a Militia camp at Mt Martha Victoria when the war broke out.He was an air cooled engine man. and later on were one of Australias initial VW dealers in Bendigo. They sold in their hey day in the 1950's 1 vehicle per day in 1 yr.Stories galore from that old mentor. Cheers John.

Met a bloke some years ago who made a living by hopping island to island throughout the pacific salvaging abandoned wartime equipment. He explained that for the yanks to take all/any gear back with them exceeded the replacement value, so came down to basic accounting. Some of the stories he told me about stores of equipment were mind boggling.

Craig.

Originally Posted by nearnexus

How about these?

White scout car - front view

There was a wreck down at the Warradale Army base for a while in the late 80's.

My father used these to knock down small trees when they were building airstrips in the NT during WW2.

He reconed the White roller went through most, but every so often you'd hit a hard one and almost go through the windscreen.

Iconic vehicle.

White scout car at Alice Springs
White scout car convoy - lined up at Alice Springs
White scout car rest break - main north south road

Hows this for overload?

Ford semi trailers on North South Road NT during WW2

Yeah, three ropes should do it

Amazing days.

Rob

We used to use White scout cars as training aids for recovery training dump them over a cliff or a gully and then haul them out the load and weight determined by the instructor. they were heavy enough to make sure all the tackle layout was always in tension irrespective of the load specified.many a Barbeque plate came from these old Whites armour.

Originally Posted by nearnexus

That sounds about right. By all accounts the NT Kenworth M1A1 finish up in the South Australiam PMG Dept workshop.

Alan Scott who started and owned Scott's Transport was actually in the same unit as my father, and after the war bought a few WW2 surplus vehicles and started up that multi million dollar transport business.

He was one hard nosed dude according to my father.

Some interesting stuff went on during and after the war.

Rob

Allan Scott? Hard nosed? You're joshing me. Surely not? LOL Never actually met him but know of people who worked for him. One good story is of the Telecom worker sent to replace the phone he smashed in anger. Allan found the guy sitting not "working". Sacked him and gave him a cheque for a weeks wages. Guy must have laughed with his mates when he got back to his depot. My mate was working at Scotts depot unloading a truck with 2 others. One was one of Allans sons. A sheet of steel they were unloading slipped and landed on the other guys hand, cutting it fairly seriously. My mate jumped down from the truck to help him and promptly got told to get back up and get to work. My mate ignored him and took the bloke to hospital. Typical behaviour. When Allan bought a farm, of which he had many he sent some tame dozer drivers with their dozers in immediately after signing and before anyone knew it, all the massive redgums were lying on the ground.

Dean

Originally Posted by th62

Sorry, that should be just north of Adelaide River not Pine Creek as I stated. Surplus equipment in the Australian defence forces? after 25 years service I can tell you there is no such thing as surplus equipment: boots, uniforms, guns ammo, vehicles and especially troops were always in short supply. The only thing we had plenty of were officers - lucky us. I can remember my old man telling me he trained with a broomstick in lieu of a rifle during the war and once in the thick of it had to resort to using a liberated Italian rifle - somethings never change. Those who can remember Alby Mangels adventures, will probably remember the US military base in the Pacific abandoned after the war that Alby came across. The island was littered with trucks and jeeps and there was a warehouse containing whitegoods and other equipment. The island did look like it had been ransacked a number of times by illegal visitors over the years. Alby liberated a roll of copper wire to fund his adventures. So I guess hidden treasures from the war do exist, although I suspect most have been discovered and plundered by now.

The trucks Alby found on that island were 1950's vintage, not WW2 era as he thought . He is back on TV with a new series and his latest girlfriend ..he looks grey these days

Originally Posted by nearnexus

I didn't know trucks came in crates ?

That sounds a bit strange.

I thought trucks were things you drove from point to point.

Rob

Trucks were intact spares were crated and in the back in a crate was all the truck minors spares winch rope etc all greased.
The engines were ''smoked'' means were run and preservative poured into engine running till it stalled covering all exposed engine components in preservative was a full days work to clean them out to start. all breathers were sealed on drive line. there used to be a directive on mothballing and re actiivating a lengthy proceedure.also was periodic inspections done to ensure that preservation had not deteriorated.Why so many vehicles appeared at ordnance depots with low speedo readings was because they all had railway sidings and were shipped by rail to Army store depots around the country
South Kensington in Melbourne had store sheds hundreds of feet long and were separated into bays with inter connecting ''Wormalds'' fire doors. you could drive from one end to the other. They were nearly all empty in the 70's.
Speaking of wastage have been present when 2 trucks Inter tippers were brought into a camp at Benalla and the canned food stuffs from the mess storeroom were loaded into the trucks taken to the local tip where the shire had been notified to have the tip dozer driver waiting to push into landfill after crushing.
we were bleeding the dozer driver was weeping at the sight. the officer supervising the disposal was a sympathetic type who must have seen the disgust and lost looks in our eyes. He said ok am going for a walk,I like walking and will be back in 20 minutes.Poor dozer drivers ute dragged its bum on the ground that 5 blokes loaded in 20 minutes.But what a sight his dozer was with 10 lb tomato cans exploding under the tracks.looked like a mass murder scene.and he didnt mind one bit.Our biggest beef was the canned goods were ok right next door was the local hospital and old people village.But no some inspecting officer had gone through and condemned the lot with the slash of a biro. Absolute waste to the max.

Originally Posted by Oldneweng

Allan Scott? Hard nosed? You're joshing me. Surely not? LOL Never actually met him but know of people who worked for him. One good story is of the Telecom worker sent to replace the phone he smashed in anger. Allan found the guy sitting not "working". Sacked him and gave him a cheque for a weeks wages. Guy must have laughed with his mates when he got back to his depot. My mate was working at Scotts depot unloading a truck with 2 others. One was one of Allans sons. A sheet of steel they were unloading slipped and landed on the other guys hand, cutting it fairly seriously. My mate jumped down from the truck to help him and promptly got told to get back up and get to work. My mate ignored him and took the bloke to hospital. Typical behaviour. When Allan bought a farm, of which he had many he sent some tame dozer drivers with their dozers in immediately after signing and before anyone knew it, all the massive redgums were lying on the ground.

Dean

Scott's old Mercedes Benz car 190 was sold in Adelaide last year,at the same time by co incidence that had my old mums same model Benz for sale They only imported and assembled 100 at Port Melbourne. rented portion of AMI factory.

Originally Posted by bwal74

"No problem with any of the above, its the gullibility of people who accept myth as fact that I find strange. The practicality of covering all those planes in grease and then burying them puts the whole thing in the myth department."

• You have obviously never served in defence (if you have or haven't I'm not trying insult you). The dumb things they make you do sometimes is unbelievable. The navy never have stores left over because they toss it all overboard, the RAAF bury everything and the Army just destroy it all.
  
  Ben.

Yes, I did my time. Covering how many Spitfires in grease in the Burmese Jungle, incredulity does not even begin to cover it. It would make a good comedy film, better than Dad's Army.

I will relate a story on memory or what we think is memory. While I was in the army I wrote letters every week to home and thought nothing of it. A few years ago Mum gave me those letters when clearing out her house and out of curiosity I read them. Remember this is a period of about 35 years between the writing and the reading so not all that long or perhaps it is. The facts in the letters were nothing like my memories for some reason and I was absolutely floored by the differences. Since then if I see a book written from memory especially a book involving trauma I will discount it as mostly fiction, well intentioned fiction but fiction all the same. I am sure myths grow and multiply from faulty memory, there is an old saying...we only remember the good times not the bad ones. We think we know what happened but did it??

So that island in the pacific must have been active for a good few years after the war ended. Alby Mangels had a show on pay TV in the US for a good number of years, I believe he was living down by the Coorong somewhere but sold that, probably to fund another adventure - what a life.

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

Yes, I did my time. Covering how many Spitfires in grease in the Burmese Jungle, incredulity does not even begin to cover it. It would make a good comedy film, better than Dad's Army.

I wouldn't be at all surprised, anything that was shipped across the tropics was sealed in "tropicalised" packaging.

For small parts this involved, multiple layers of grease impregnated cloth, followed by grease proof paper, followed by sealed plastic bags followed by more greasy cloth layers... more cardboard layers... etc.. etc.. the degree of effort put into packaging and protecting some of this stuff was incredible.

Dad's army was probably closer to reality than we'd like to admit..

Regards
Ray

The following video describes how a shot down Spitfire above Calais was dug up from the beach and rebuilt.

Sadly the original pilot died before seeing his plane again.

Ken