Thread: Carbide inserts.... again

I am only just starting out too, but Carbide Depot Carbide Inserts and Cutting Tools is a great resource.

Some particularly good links below.
Insert Shape Selection
Insert Designation Chart - provides ANSI and ISO designation code definitions for carbide insert shapes, relief angles, tolerances, chipbreaker codes, hole types, size values, thickness values, radius values, wiper lead angle, wiper clearance angle,
Indexable Milling Troubleshooting Guide - gives solutions to problems encountered in indexable milling applications e.g. chatter, poor surface finish, roughness, flatness, waviness, part burring, workpiece breakout, and poor insert life
Carbide Insert Grade Range Chart - provides ISO and ANSI code definitions for grade application ranges of carbide inserts for P steel applications, M stainless steel applications, K cast iron applications, and C scale values

Thanks Mark but that site was pointed out to me in the other post about inserts but still does not explain when to use positive rake or negative rake. ..or at least I cant find it other than a little bit in the trouble shooting section.

Anyway went looking this morning and stumbled across this

now to find an easy, I mean real easy method to work out speeds etc etc

Bloke

I had the same problem as you understanding where and when to use the correct rake for a specific job. Best thing I ever did was do a course through TAFE on Milling and Lathe work. That subject on rake angle came up. So i went off and asked the TAFE teacher. He of course started out speaking in tech mumbo jumbo until I asked to break it down in normal English which he did. Gave me the when and why to use.

If you have a local TAFE, go down and poke your head through the door and ask one of the teachers, they are full of information and only willing to help out.

That was back in 2003 for me. Have forgotten everything he said and still use your method of trial and see what it does.

DD

Hi,
I don't know much about inserts (I mostly use HSS), but from what I know is our size machines aren't suited to negative rake as they don't have enough mass and are not rigid enough.
I do have insert tooling but what I use is all positive rake. Most of the inserts come with the batches of tooling I have bought so they are mistery inserts as to the numbers.
I know Retro milling knows a lot about inserts as he rattles off numbers that go over my head, but he hasn't been around lately. Maybe drop him an email, if I see him I will ask for you.
Dave

Originally Posted by Dave J

Hi,
I don't know much about inserts (I mostly use HSS), but from what I know is our size machines aren't suited to negative rake as they don't have enough mass and are not rigid enough.
I do have insert tooling but what I use is all positive rake. Most of the inserts come with the batches of tooling I have bought so they are mistery inserts as to the numbers.
I know Retro milling knows a lot about inserts as he rattles off numbers that go over my head, but he hasn't been around lately. Maybe drop him an email, if I see him I will ask for you.
Dave

Thanks Dave.
if we cant use negative inserts then that narrows it down a lot and makes selection a whole lot easier.

Now I just need to find out if an insert with a wiper is better than one with a radius (as far as finish goes).

Was thinking of getting 300-400 bucks worth from Carbide Depot as they seem a lot cheaper over there than what General Tools (H & F agent in S A) are asking; needed info so I dont order wrong stuff that I will never be able to use. The min freight cost of US$50 makes one need to order this amount to make its economical...at least i might end up with enough which might see me out till I cark it....lol

Am I right that C2 is basically for cast iron, C5 for general steel stuff with semi finishing while C7, C8 are for finishing.
But then and if so what do you make of this......when you look at Carbide site eg on a insert selection it has this:
ISO Range: P05-25 M10-25 K10-25 N20-30 S10-25 H20
ANSI Range: C6-C7 C3-C4

what is it...is it a C6-7 or C3-4 carbide????

eskimo - I checked up on some of the inserts and I see what you mean.

I would take this to mean - in the case you listed - that the insert can be used as a Semi-finishing/ Light finishing insert for steel(C6 and C7), or as a Semi-finishing/Precision finishing insert on cast iron(C3 and C4).

Seems very multi-purpose though doesnt it? Best answer would come from the source - send Carbide Depot an email to put your mind at ease.

Eskimo,
I don't think there is any one site that will answer all the questions you ask....at least I've not found it yet ......like most of us starting out, it's a matter of reading as much as you can and seeing what works best for you, I ordered individual tips of various sizes, shapes and grades from Shars to see which ones work best for my machine......there are too many variables such as what you are cutting, the power of your machine, the speeds you can use and whether you have rear tooling access or not...........you are also limited to the tool holders you have as they aren't cheap either.... .if you know basically what you are looking for, then have a look at this site Carbide Inserts - Toolmex Corporation ........when you find a style/shape/composition that works best for you, then I usually order a ten pack which works out cheaper and much smaller freight parcel.....they will last for yonks.....but bear in mind, as soon as the metal you intend to cut changes whether it's FCMS, BDMS Stainless, brass or even delrin.....you won't get one magic insert that does them all like HSS can - maybe not as well (for me at least , but a darn side cheaper) ........I'd hate for you to buy heaps and then find that they'll only be suitable for the odd job and an overkill for the rest of your work..........Lee

Post Script.......forgot to add Eskino...............if you follow the links through on the insert you are looking at, select the Grade hyperlink and it will bring up a window with all the specs including the type of metal it's designed for and the cutting speeds etc...............

I think I may have hit the Holy Grail of Information on Inserts. Should have gone here sooner - go-to-the-source sort of thing.

The link takes you to the Technical Information Index. First link in the Milling Section takes you to a great, simple pictorial of what all the angles associated with a tool mean, and their impact on cutting. Look for the calculators on the right hand side - two pages will give you Cutting Speed, Feed Per Tooth, and Cutting Power for milling and turning. Handy!

MITSUBISHI MATERIALS CORPORATION##TECHNICAL INFORMATION

Thanks for the link Mark
now to print each page to PDF and join for a booklet of sorts

i take the pages to office werks only costs a few dollars to get them bound
john