Thread: Cheap high quality tooling

Originally Posted by Driftabout

When I was a lad, my old man would go on about the Jap rubbish that was cheap and nasty. I suspect the Chines are following a similar upward path while here in Australia we let our onshore manufacturing capability decay.

The Chinese path seems to somewhat slower than comparable manufacturing countries. As a collective the Chinese manufacturers don't appear to be overly interested in improving the overall quality of their general exported machinery and tools. When i saw quality , I mean fitness for purpose ,sothe item purchased works straight out of the box without having to modify or repair it first.
Note that , there are a few high quality manufacturers and I suspect that they are there mainly for supplying military and science manufacturing more so than export .
I have a vertical band saw purchased 20 years ago from Hafco that arrived with so many defects it was unusable. Twenty years on , when I received a horizontal bandsaw from the same source again it was the same. It could not be assembled,tuned and work out of the box without major modifications.Mind you I specified from the supplier i wanted a taiwanese bandsaw

I suspect there are problems like training labor to the appropriate skills levels and overcoming corruption that impact upon quality of Chinese exported goods.However products such as Apple sells, indicate that there is a level of quality that can be achieved if the will and the organization are there. For further machinery / tools I care to make, the manufacturers will be the Taiwanese.

Grahame




Taiwanese manufacturers

Originally Posted by Grahame Collins

I have a vertical band saw purchased 20 years ago from Hafco that arrived with so many defects it was unusable. Twenty years on , when I received a horizontal bandsaw from the same source again it was the same. It could not be assembled,tuned and work out of the box without major modifications.Mind you I specified from the supplier i wanted a taiwanese bandsaw

Yeah but for every story like yours there's a counterpoint. I've got 2 of those POS bandsaws, 1 in Sydney and 1 in Hobart. The Sydney one was bought from H&F and has always worked, made in Taiwan. The Hobart one is a *really* tinny POS with a swivelling head (I learnt after the first one) and made in China. I've been through a heap of blades and an enormous amount of steel on it and it worked straight out of the box. The only problem I've ever had was the pulley lock screw working loose and I cured that with a 2nd screw at 90 deg.

OTOH my Chinese bench drill press is a POS without doubt. 2 switches, the drive pulley on the spindle is a friction fit only - I thought I'd lost/sheared the locking key, no, there isn't one. But it drills holes acceptably for $300. If I want to drill a hole in steel over 12mm I use the Arboga anyway.

QA on these cheap import tools is a crapshoot, I'll agree. Most of the old stuff wasn't anything to get excited about, either. I have a Paulcall 12" wood bandsaw that has very little to recommend it.

PDW

PDW,
It is in keeping with the very point I was trying to make. The cheapy Taiwanese stuff I had experience with ,while cheap, has always worked first up straight out of the box. If it is sold as a drill press or a bandsaw ,you should be able to expect to use as such straight away. All that I am after is to have what ever I buy fit for purpose.
My Taiwanese CH16B 12 speed drill press is dated 1989 and has worked without problems for 25 years. The mates Rong Fu RF115 horizontal band saw it would have to be over 30 years and while cheap and tinny ,cut steel from day he took it home.My Chinese RF115 clone (both RF115 and clone no longer made, by the way) 30 years later would not hold the blade on the band wheel because the wheel was not concentric with the bore and the bore is not axial to wheel.

Something that I did not consider before was that the product defect feedback structure is not the same as "normal commercial trading" At one time when a faulty product came up consumers could get back to the manufacturer via the distributors and dealers and the manufacturing company would do the best to fix the problem. With so many unbranded Chinese products this does not happen and its up to the dealers to repair/replace place or not. When you live far from capital cities freight back to the vendor is costly and lots choose to fix the product up, rather than pay 20% of purchase value in freight.

I will stick with what I have had a good run with.

Grahame

Recently talking to a bloke who was part of the club I belong to before taking up a job in China. Was back on a flying visit, so thought I would talk to him about his job over there.

Works in the engineering sector for a firm over there. recons he has constant issues with parts being made by outside firms. Stuff like basic manufacturing defects and stupid things like painting straight over rusty items.

Sounds like he has been doing some troubleshooting on their production line. He says labour is so cheap (what overtime rates?) that they will do a days run with known shi*tty parts and then go back afterwards and "fix/replace" the issues. Even when its a major job to access the dodgy bits.

Says he gets his minions to chase suppliers to resend parts to the appropriate spec.
It was an interesting conversation
Seems to be belting his head against the wall. I wished him luck.

I buy a lot of Chinese items from aliexpress, ebay or other web sites, here's a list of items I've had problems with:

Bicycle seat post rack, $18 - damaged by China mail, promised replacement never arrived.
A multimeter, $10 - fell apart on first use, complained and received a full refund.
A wrist pulse monitor, $4 - never worked, threw it in the bin.
LED replacement globes for caravan, $8 - bayonets attached incorrectly, full refund.
An 80 watt semi flexible solar panel, $180 - damaged by China Mail, replaced by seller. I still have the original bent and twisted panel and although I have panel beaten it to a semblance of it's original shape - it still works.
A wristwatch, $18 - stopped working after six months because I dropped it on the pavers from my roof, 8' above'.
Butane soldering iron, $6 - only suitable for very light gauge wire.

These were the only items of Chinese origin I ever had a problem with and all but two were either replaced or refunded.

But not all is bad, here's the good: I bought a Chinese lathe, not only was it fit for purpose straight out of the box and still works fine, but I have never repaired or modified anything on it, it is as it came out of the box. I also bought a Chinese bandsaw, again not only was it fit for purpose, but it worked fine straight out of the box. I have added a coolant system and a blade adjustment mod, but neither were necessary and without either the bandsaw works fine.

I buy plenty of Chinese items on either aliexpress, ebay or other web sites and about 99% of everything I have bought I still have and still use, things like an angle grinder, an electric drill, three vernier calipers, a micrometer, a machinist's level, HSS tool bits, rare earth magnets, three coolant pumps, spanners, three solar panels, a bicycle seat, two seat post racks, two handlebar risers, one watch, a 200 AH AGM battery for caravan, you name it I have bought it.

I've also bought name brands from Australian sellers on ebay, most worked out fine, but the ones that didn't: too bad so sad. No refund unless I pay to return the item for inspection so the seller can decide whether or not I deserve a refund.

The TV I watch now was made in China (yours probably is too) - never had a problem with it, the notebook I'm writing this post with was made in China (yours probably is too) - it works fine. Most of my wife's electrical kitchen wizardry is made in China (your wife's 'tools' probably are too) - all is fit for purpose and all work fine.

It's a pretty hard audience that can only denigrate when the seller or manufacturer will bend over backwards to keep the buyer happy, by either replacing faulty items or by refunding in full without even the need to return the original item; and, even when the item is damaged by a third party - they are still prepared to replace or refund.

How do you pay for things on ali-express?

Categories Payment

Originally Posted by .RC.

How do you pay for things on ali-express?

credit card...ask your wife..lol

I use my visa.

I have had a couple of disappointing purchases, but no problem as Aliexpress has Escrow. Money refunded.

I agree with regards to returns without inspection of goods. I have had replacements from Aussie sellers without having to return goods tho. I have mentioned my 3 hand held tacho's. Came from Sydney. A couple of minutes ago I read an email reply from another seller from Sydney asking if I would accept a replacement for a damaged part of a HID headlight kit. Funny thing is, these replacements all come from sellers with Chinese names.

Re the butane soldering iron, I have 2 of these bought from actual stores at different times. They work well, but the soldering iron part only works for light gauge wire. I use the flame direct for anything bigger. Has anyone found one that did not cost a fortune and can solder heavier wire? I got the impression that they were only capable of light work. I have hardly used any of my electric soldering irons since I got them.

Dean

I've just bought an Iroda Pro 120, compared to my Chinese iron, it is massive. It takes 38m of butane compared to 8m for the Chinese. Most of the butane soldering irons are rated at the same temperature: 450 degrees for the solder tip and 1200 degrees for the torch, so it is difficult to pick which one is suitable for heavier work. I would suggest the larger the tip the heavier the work it will handle. The Iroda is rated at the same torch temp but the solder iron is rated a little higher, 500 or 550, can't remember which and the tip is slightly larger. At it's lowest setting it will handle heavier work than the much smaller Chinese iron. In kit form it comes with two solder tips, and a hot air blower, it can also be used as a torch. It is rated up to 120 watt and will solder very, very heavy wire. Unfortunately at $98 for the kit it is expensive, but definitely worth it. Jaycar have a similar one for around $70 - not sure of the temp ratings. Incidently, the Chinese product will accept the cheap butane cannisters ($4.50 for six 280g cans) but the Iroda will only accept the the more expensive cannisters ($5.90 for one 150g cannister), I believe all the name brands are similar in that respect; however, the adapters that come with the more expensive cannisters will also fit the cheap cannisters, making the more expensive cannister a once in a while buy only.