Thread: Chinese quality versus Swiss quality

Originally Posted by Pete F

Ray what makes you suspect that?

Pete

Hi Pete,

The thing that tipped me off was the dial diameter is 32mm versus 40mm for the original, but there are other things like the yellow colour is different and so on.. there's a summary on the Mitutoyo Web site of what to look for.

As always it's buyer beware...

Regards
Ray

Ok , Here's a PDF of the differences between the real thing and the fakes..

Hi

MITUTOYO with base for about $32?

Dial Test Indicator 0-40-0 With Magnetic Base New -US | eBay

Though it does look better than the shars one.

Stuart

Hi Stuart,

Mitutoyo with base for $32, yep it's a fake... wrong box, the real one doesn't have foam packing.

Regards
Ray

Thanks Phil for bringing this up here and thanks to all that have answered.

I think I will go with the Tesa level and the INTERAPID 0.01mm DTI.

These are mainly for rebuilding / setting up my Beaver mill at the moment but I'm sure they will come in handy for other things.

Jayson.

I bought one of those a few years back as well, but it was not advertised as Mitutoyo. When it turned up and I saw the name I knew it was a fake, then not long after someone put up a link to the Mitutoyo site which confirmed it.
It's a good general purpose one as I only us it to compare readings not measuring.
For any precision work I use a Best test or Girod test indicate.

Dave

Yeah I know its fake I have one. Was just an example.
They missed one of the differences. The front mount is on a angle to the face on the real one, parallel on the the fake. It does work surprisingly well. I have some staretts and a girod-tast 0.0001" for when I'm going a little stupid.

Of course when the one I use all the time breaks I'll blame cheap rubbish when the good ones have spent most of there lives in their boxes.

Stuart

p.s. I meant to add, I've seen a lot of Mitutoyo stuff from Indian sellers lately at more like Mitutoyo prices, how do you know?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/280723276809

I don't get why the flatness of a level's base is such an issue. I would think as long as it's stable it should work fine. I wouldn't be surprised if the tolerance says 'flat to minus something in the middle', even on the good ones. It's not like you're going to have one end hanging off a surface, right? Phil?

Originally Posted by Bryan

I don't get why the flatness of a level's base is such an issue. I would think as long as it's stable it should work fine. I wouldn't be surprised if the tolerance says 'flat to minus something in the middle', even on the good ones. It's not like you're going to have one end hanging off a surface, right? Phil?

Bryan, Phil is of course the person to answer this, however can I suggest that if the level isn't flat and the surface you're measuring also isn't flat, then the highs and lows of each surface may coincide to give incorrect readings. eg a "high" on the end of the level may coincide with a high point on the surface and cause that end to then be high. Alternatively that point may happen to fall down into a lower point on which you're measuring. While the overall plane of what you're measuring hasn't changed, the very same end is now reading low. The difference in distance between the two many not be very much, hence why I suggested that the level wouldn't repeat accurately.

That's my take on it anyway.

Pete

Originally Posted by Bryan

I don't get why the flatness of a level's base is such an issue. I would think as long as it's stable it should work fine. I wouldn't be surprised if the tolerance says 'flat to minus something in the middle', even on the good ones. It's not like you're going to have one end hanging off a surface, right? Phil?

I think it is mainly because a minute amount of movement can make a big difference in where the bubble finally rests...

With all measurement once you get into the small sizes you must have consistency...

To give an example of the sizes we are talking about....

My Starrett #199 is 0.0005" per foot per graduation...And the graduations on the starrett are 1/10" apart so I can fairly easily discern each graduation into quarters..

I recently had it on my TC grinder ways, the ways were six inches apart... That measn the level was now reading 0.00025" per six inches per graduation.... Break that down into a quarter division and we are talking really tiny amounts 62.5 millionths of an inch.... That must be somewhere around one and a half microns....A stupendiously small amount and impossible to reliably measure in my shed at least, but the level is capable of discerning that amount... In fact IMO it would drive you up the wall trying...

Remember what Marko said about what five microns was...

Ok. I'm trying to think of an example where I've seen a precision level NOT used on a parallel or similar. I guess it does happen, but not usually I think? Anyway, it's no biggie to scrape it in, right? But if I paid good money for a Tesa etc I wouldn't really want to.

Originally Posted by Bryan

Ok. I'm trying to think of an example where I've seen a precision level NOT used on a parallel or similar. I guess it does happen, but not usually I think? Anyway, it's no biggie to scrape it in, right? But if I paid good money for a Tesa etc I wouldn't really want to.

If I use my levels on parallels, I will try as hard as possible to keep the setup the same, only moving the pieces touching whatever I am measuring.... And it is bloody hard.... I have taken five readings and gotten five different results, from lack of care in moving the setup...

This is the beauty of Marko's roller bar levelling system or the King Way alignment tool, less parts to move around = more consistency..

Hi .RC,

Agree on the difficulty of accurate measurements in this sort of range, (you know all this already, but it doesn't hurt to repeat it). When you get into the micron range, the curvature of the earth becomes a factor, not to mention steel expands at 13 microns per meter per degree... a 1 degree change in temperature due to drafts or passing clouds and wham your're out by 13 microns...

I tried to remember the correction for the curvature of the earth, and have a figure of 2.5 microns per meter in mind, (I think it was in Connelly) that is two levels set exactly level 1 meter apart will deviate from a straight line by 2.5 microns... because of the curvature of the earth... I think that's right.. feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Anyway, it just illustrates another way of how small 5 microns actually is, although Marko's explanation is better...

Regards
Ray

Originally Posted by Stustoys

p.s. I meant to add, I've seen a lot of Mitutoyo stuff from Indian sellers lately at more like Mitutoyo prices, how do you know?
MITUTOYO DIAL TEST INDICATOR - BRAND NEW PRECISION DIAL | eBay

Hi Stuart, My fake Mitutoyo's DTI's work fine, probably not as good as the real thing, at least they were cheap.

That ebay Indian seller looks like he's selling the real Mitutoyo stuff, (so far as I can tell) but his prices are dearer than buying new Mitutoyo from places like Long Island Indicator.

I wonder if these are higher quality fake Indian copies of Mitutoyo, maybe they looked at the Mitutoyo web site and decided they could make better fakes...

In any event you could buy a top of the line brand like a Compac 0.01 for $170 + postage from 154 : Compac small metric dial indicator

Versus ebay Indian Mitutoyo for $185+$15 postage...

Regards
Ray