Thread: chuck gards on lathes

i just found some work safe info on this subject but its only a recomendation.


http://www.worksafe.vic.gov.au/__dat..._Sheet_WEB.pdf

Metal lathes are a hot topic with safety after a few entanglements & very severe injuries.

http://www.worksafe.vic.gov.au/__dat...Lathes_web.pdf

i try to leave a 4 jaw on the lathes it seems to cut down on people who probable shouldn't from using them. but any can make a mistake.

Have a look at
http://www.worksafe.vic.gov.au/__dat...OP19_plant.pdf


AS 4024 "Safeguarding of Machinery"

Won't be long before they are banned from all workplaces and instead fully enclosed CNC machines will be the only things allowed to be used... They are just way too dangerous...

All the while thousands will die on our roads and every accepts that..

At the same time chuck guards are not silly if they stop chips from flying everywhere and do not get in the road.

Hi

The local TAFE lathes ( Chinese copies of Colchesters ) have a clear guard over the chuck, but nobody seemed to bother using them ..... I think there is a cut out switch that disconnects the power until the guard is lowered , but often the lathe worked with the guard in the up position . The teachers told us to be careful but some teenagers cannot be told .

There was one idiot who would leave the chuck key on and turn on the lathe, he did this often , probably to gain some attention .

Mike

At work our OHS requirements are to follow "best practice" (ie not just the legislation) so all our machinery has to be interlocked guarded unless a special case is made in writing clearly spelling out why this has not been done and approved higher up the ladder. In general the folks higher up the ladder don't have a clue about much of this stuff and just do what is asked of them by the people making the requests but some managers can be difficult and others let idiots get away with stuff that should be stomped on.

Oh well another 4 weeks and I won't have to worry about that stuff

Its a subjective thing. I have run lathes with guards and without guards. Looking at it subjectively, the chuck guard appears to be fitted to stop the chuck key being left in the chuck and to stop material being ejected from the spinning chuck. It does do the former brilliantly and the latter poorly .

To my way of thinking ,certain people are really not suited to operating lathes or other complex machinery. Operation of machinery requires a combination of a certain mental attitude, self discipline and self preservation. Machinery can be so over guarded that an inattentive operator could be lulled into a sense of being protected to the point where very little caution is required or indeed exercised.

In my visits to local industry I haven't seen any chuck guards fitted to industrial lathes. Chuck guards seem to be deemed necessary in the province of beginners,students and hobbyists by the manufacturers of such lathes.Industrial operators are trained to respect the lathe and consequently few accidents are suffered by industry in general. There are shops here that will sack you on the spot if you leave a key in a chuck.

I think the pics of the lathe fatality,on the net, a few years back a did more to promote lathe safety than any fitted chuck guards ever could.

The question I ask, is the guard fitted to protect the operator or protect the manufacturer from the careless operators and lawyers?

My Steelmaster 12 x 36A came with a chuck guard and when it fell off ( I kid you not- I leaned across the (stationary) lathe to reach a tool and steadied myself with my left hand and it fell off. I have since left the guard off and continue to treat the rotating chuck as something that can rip an arm off if I don't give it the respect it demands.If the guard fell off under a kilo or two of my body weight, how well would it do in shielding me when something let go.

Every operation in the lathe should be assessed for hazards before you begin it.

Work safely, my friends.

Grahame

Originally Posted by Grahame Collins

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The question I ask, is the guard fitted to protect the operator or protect the manufacturer from the careless operators and lawyers?
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There is no question that ours are (retro) fitted to protect the management from the workers.

My copy of the relevant Australian Standard is years old and I haven't read it cover to cover recently, but my understanding was that production equipment had to be guarded when ever possible to avoid (presumably inexperienced or untrained) operators being able to come into contact with parts that may injure, whether that be rotating or crushing or whatever. From memory there was an exception granted for jobbing machines - because of the varied nature of the work done on them operators were excused from having extensive guarding. For example, if you think about a job mounted on a faceplate, a chuck guard soon becomes impractical. The assumption was also made that the machines were operated by properly trained people who understood the dangers present.
There is also the risk mitigation school of thought that says dangers are to be removed/ guarded against etc whenever the analysis of consequence and likelihood suggest there may be an issue. From a manufacturer's point of view chuck guards are cheap, well known and can be fitted. Therefore to guard themselves against accusations of selling "unsafe" products, they fit them. (I don't like seeing that word - "unsafe" - it is usually brandished by people who have no idea about risk or reality). You are not allowed to mention cost and safety together, but the guiding principle in risk reduction is ALARP - "As Low As Reasonably Practical", so unreasonable expense is a defence for not having full guarding, although other measures would be required to mitigate the risk present (training for example).
As a result your lathe probably has a chuck guard because it could be used in a production environment, and guards are not expensive or difficult to fit.
I bought a drill press for work the other day which also had a chuck guard. The really weird thing was that it was so big that it meant that you couldn't actually use the drill properly. I can't of course tell our fitters to modify safety equipment so that it can be negated but I can guess one of the first things that will 'break' on that drill press.

Michael

The way they outline suitable guards can only offer two reasonable forms of protection - the prevention of leaving a key in, and stopping a sleeve or something similar from being dragged in should someone inadvertently reach over a spinning chuck. While they are great for both of these actions, chuck keys can be spring loaded, flagged and whatnot, and it can possibly lull people into a false security around a lathe while wearing incorrect clothing.

As a personal thing they irritate me. I see them as yet another thing to get in the way and obscure my vision somewhat, and just something else to work around. We get it drilled into us that the first thing you should know about anything in a workshop, whether it's machinery, hand tools, chemicals or the things you're working on, is that it can kill you. No messing about, it can, and will kill you. It doesn't take many bites from something relatively benign like a pair of pliers to realise just how easily your body's red oil flows out. I personally find respect for the machinery and proper training to be far more substantial than guards to protect the silly from themselves.

I'm not against guarding by any means, but it is situational. As we all know even the most experienced operators make mistakes from time to time, and said guards may just save them some blood, a finger or much more. Always an interesting topic for a bit of heat.

Cheers.

I found it odd that when I bought my AL340D brand new that it was physically impossible to fit the faceplate with the chuck guard in place. I had to remove the mounting bracket as that was the part that was fouling. I haven't got around to refitting it yet. I thought there might have been clearance holes to facilitate moving the mounting bracket slightly and leaving enough room between the bracket and faceplate but nope. So I guess it will have to stay off. Crazy they would fit a guard you can't use.

Phil

Modern machines are supplied with a chuck key that cannot be left in the chuck ! A spring is fitted on the barrel that ejects the key if you let it go. Trouble is that people remove the spring...

Originally Posted by Steamwhisperer

I found it odd that when I bought my AL340D brand new that it was physically impossible to fit the faceplate with the chuck guard in place. I had to remove the mounting bracket as that was the part that was fouling. I haven't got around to refitting it yet. I thought there might have been clearance holes to facilitate moving the mounting bracket slightly and leaving enough room between the bracket and faceplate but nope. So I guess it will have to stay off. Crazy they would fit a guard you can't use. Phil

Thats always an issue - "compliance" thru poor design, the "tick in the box" mentality. Supplied guards must function adequately for the typical uses of the machinery. Under our national H&S legislation designers, manufacturers & suppliers can actually be found negligent & prosecuted for designing & supplying machinery if it is found that poor design was a contributing cause to a serious injury / death.

Originally Posted by BaronJ

Modern machines are supplied with a chuck key that cannot be left in the chuck ! A spring is fitted on the barrel that ejects the key if you let it go. Trouble is that people remove the spring...

Thats a major factor identified in many accident investigations - people modifying or tampering with safety features. Sometimes its because they either don't function for the expected life of the item or at all; or they are so annoying to use repeatedly in day to day activities.