Thread: Colchester

pjt,
I think as you say the Master 2500 is not the most ridged of machines for heavy work, but its still a good machine. Headstock can be a bit noisy. If it has been used with suds, its most likely to have some in the apron saddle, pull the bottom plate off and have a look as the feed overload clutch is also there. This is set by the indented knob on the bottom right side of the apron saddle.
The hand operated way oiler system which draws oil from the apron saddle is not the best, I ended up putting an oil nipple on the rear way of the saddle. Just pump until oil comes out of the tell tale hole on the left front side of the cross slide. Foot brake linkage needed a bit of attention on mine, but nothing some new bolts and bushes couldn't fix. If the chucks, steadies and face plate have not been changed around, the serial number on theses should match the number on the lathe. Oil leaks/seeps from the headstock area are common, helps keep the corrosion down. I ended up running 1 drive belt instead of 2 due to not finding a good matched pair, but I'm only home shop so don't have to push it. I don't run suds so have disconnected, but access to the sump and pump from the rear of the right side stand can be a bit limiting on placement of the machine if space is tight. The progressive gear speed selection is nice. Available thread cutting selection is good, but if you require coarse threads/feeds have to change one (or maybe its 2) of the drive gears, these are a fibre type and can be expensive/hard to find if not with the machine. I don't think they are being made, at least in the UK, but 600 machinery are supposed to be the agents for original parts, but second hand items still seem available from various sources in the UK. Gamet bearings are super expensive if needed. I think Dashin in Taiwan make a similar copy.
Overall a good machine, trust you can acquire one. Alan.

Hi Pete,
I thought it was a general rule that metric lathes were "off daimeter" and imp laths were "off radius"?
At least this way if you forget you'll only take off half instead of double.

Good luck

Stuart

Hi Pete,
Just like Alan said, these machines leak oil, i think most british machines come factory with oil leaks. Total loss system they call it.....So if you see oil leaks from the gearboxes don't be alarmed, it doesn't matter how hard you try to fix them you probably won't be able to.

Originally Posted by C-47

pjt,
I think as you say the Master 2500 is not the most ridged of machines for heavy work, but its still a good machine. Headstock can be a bit noisy. If it has been used with suds, its most likely to have some in the apron saddle, pull the bottom plate off and have a look as the feed overload clutch is also there. This is set by the indented knob on the bottom right side of the apron saddle.
The hand operated way oiler system which draws oil from the apron saddle is not the best, I ended up putting an oil nipple on the rear way of the saddle. Just pump until oil comes out of the tell tale hole on the left front side of the cross slide. Foot brake linkage needed a bit of attention on mine, but nothing some new bolts and bushes couldn't fix. If the chucks, steadies and face plate have not been changed around, the serial number on theses should match the number on the lathe. Oil leaks/seeps from the headstock area are common, helps keep the corrosion down. I ended up running 1 drive belt instead of 2 due to not finding a good matched pair, but I'm only home shop so don't have to push it. I don't run suds so have disconnected, but access to the sump and pump from the rear of the right side stand can be a bit limiting on placement of the machine if space is tight. The progressive gear speed selection is nice. Available thread cutting selection is good, but if you require coarse threads/feeds have to change one (or maybe its 2) of the drive gears, these are a fibre type and can be expensive/hard to find if not with the machine. I don't think they are being made, at least in the UK, but 600 machinery are supposed to be the agents for original parts, but second hand items still seem available from various sources in the UK. Gamet bearings are super expensive if needed. I think Dashin in Taiwan make a similar copy.
Overall a good machine, trust you can acquire one. Alan.

Hi Alan,
I'll check on the things you point out and see how it goes

Originally Posted by Stustoys

Hi Pete,
I thought it was a general rule that metric lathes were "off daimeter" and imp laths were "off radius"?
At least this way if you forget you'll only take off half instead of double.

Good luck

Stuart

Hi Stu, I haven't heard that, the only lathe that I have used that was off the dia was the colchester, I havent used many different types to compare, I think it makes life a lot easier as the diameter is what is measured, not the radius, it's just another thing to think about when making a depth of cut adjustment

Pete

Originally Posted by pjt

Hi Stu, I haven't heard that, the only lathe that I have used that was off the dia was the colchester, I havent used many different types to compare, I think it makes life a lot easier as the diameter is what is measured, not the radius, it's just another thing to think about when making a depth of cut adjustment

Pete

My 12x36 is off diameter. i.e. if I turn the dial a complete turn which represents 4mm, the cross slide moves 2mm. I assumed all lathes were. But there's another piece of trivia I have picked up. Thanks Stuart.

Simon

A real genuine Master 2500 is relatively rare, I've heard it said that they sold one to every thousand Triumphs made. They were intended as a tool room lathe and had probably the quietest Colchester headstock around as it had lapped gears in the headstock. Colchester supposedly lost money on the 2500 sales but they were a good machine. There is a similar Student, intended for training purposes, which has the same bed casting and depending on what you hear online had a lower centre height or the same centre height and some other cost cutting measures. I have heard it "alleged" that there are some Master 2500's that were really Students with a Master label on them so as to get the price way down for Government tenders and that look like one at first glance. The Adelaide TAFE had an auction recently with a Master lathe for sale with the modern square headstock and what was definitely a quick change gearbox instead of the usual tiny stick shift, I'd never ever seen one like it before, kind of like an intermediate model from the old to the newer 1960-70's models.

Also take with a grain of salt what I'm writing here as I've only gleaned it from talking to other Colchester users, not actually reading documentation.

Like C47 says they get coolant in the apron and can cause nasty rust pitting on the gears. There is now a Gamet agent in Australia who can sell a set of bearings for the headstock for around $2000 which is half the price of buying it from Machinery 600, probably because they brought the stock over ages ago when import duties were higher than now.

Hi Pete,
Sorry I missread your .

Hi Simon,
Dont take my word on that one. I've used imp lathes but to long ago to remember, the rest were metric, all three of them. so not a huge sample. I just remember hearing it or reading it somewhere.

Stuart

Originally Posted by Stustoys

Hi Pete,
Sorry I missread your .

Hi Simon,
Dont take my word on that one. I've used imp lathes but to long ago to remember, the rest were metric, all three of them. so not a huge sample. I just remember hearing it or reading it somewhere.

Stuart

It has just occurred to me (would obviously be common knowledge amongst DRO users) that when you fit a DRO to you lathe like mine or any lathe that reads on diameter, the cross slide would then read Radius?

Or is there a setup menu in the console that allows you to change the setting?

Simon

Originally Posted by simonl

It has just occurred to me (would obviously be common knowledge amongst DRO users) that when you fit a DRO to you lathe like mine or any lathe that reads on diameter, the cross slide would then read Radius?

Or is there a setup menu in the console that allows you to change the setting?

Simon

On mine there is, I can read either by pushing 1 button, altough I always use diameter.

Originally Posted by Graziano

A real genuine Master 2500 is relatively rare, I've heard it said that they sold one to every thousand Triumphs made. They were intended as a tool room lathe and had probably the quietest Colchester headstock around as it had lapped gears in the headstock.

I have read something similar, however I will not present myself as an expert either.... not on this topic anyway

Overall Colchester lathes are a good machine and if you get a good one at a good price I wouldn't hesitate.

However there are some that believe that the Colchester badge can amplify the price to stratospheric levels. I have seen a Triumph 2000 priced by a dealer at $15000, ten times the price of what I paid for mine.

Of course the square headstock Colchesters were built during the decline phase of British heavy industry so you better make sure that the machine you buy wasn't built on a Monday morning or Friday afternoon.

Originally Posted by Graziano

There is now a Gamet agent in Australia who can sell a set of bearings for the headstock for around $2000 which is half the price of buying it from Machinery 600, probably because they brought the stock over ages ago when import duties were higher than now.

Would you be so kind as to tell me who and where?

Originally Posted by Gerbilsquasher

I have read something similar, however I will not present myself as an expert either.... not on this topic anyway

Overall Colchester lathes are a good machine and if you get a good one at a good price I wouldn't hesitate.

However there are some that believe that the Colchester badge can amplify the price to stratospheric levels. I have seen a Triumph 2500 priced by a dealer at $15000, ten times the price of what I paid for mine.

There were a pair of TAFE Triumph 2000's sold up here 6 months or so ago for $1200 and $1400, both with chucks and one with parts of a hydraulic tracer fitted. I was low on cash that day .

Originally Posted by Gerbilsquasher

Would you be so kind as to tell me who and where?

Here's a copy of the email I dug up, I was wrong about the prices it was closer to $1500:

Dear Mark, You have been corresponding with Gamet in the UK on some bearings for a Graziano SAG 14 but have also requested pricing for some
bearings used in a Colchester Master 2500, I apologise for the time it has taken to contact you as I have been out of the country. The Colchester
bearings you have requested we stock here in Melbourne as follows:
130070/13012C (Colchester P/N B336-1219) at $795.00 each (+GST)
113060X/113101XP (Colchester P/N B336-1308) at $806.00 each (+GST)
If you would like to discuss these and the Graziano bearings further please give me a call on the number below and again I apologise for the delay
in responding to you.

Regards, Bill Lingard Managing Director
CGB Precision Products P/L
94 Voltri St Mentone
VIC 3194 Australia
Phone +61 3 9584 5311
Fax +61 3 9584 7784
www.cgb.com.au

Thanks Graziano.

The $15k price was about 8-9 years ago. In the current climate it would be hilarious.

So, for a good one the price I would be looking at would be around the $1200 to $1500 by the sounds of it. Hopefully less but at auctions it usually depends on who's there.

Pete