Thread: Cross slide scraping

Originally Posted by PDW

I've been a member of PM for many years. It's a great forum. Not to take anything away from here but the depth & breadth of talent on PM is immense.

Yes, you need a thicker skin and it's best to stay out of some of the forums unless you like arguments. As a survivor of the totally unmoderated era of Usenet newsgroups, I don't have a problem with that. Some may have seen me give the moderator of one of the forums there a full and frank opinion of his biases & competence. I still post there, haven't been banned.

I don't bother with the HSM forum. Frankly I'm not interested in a lot of that level stuff. I'm not knocking it, I just don't care.

PDW

I joined last night after reading through a thread from a link from Phil. Only joined really for one reason, I noticed a member posted last month asking Greg? if he planned on another group buy of surface plates. His user name is Luther, so I joined up to PM him to see if he was still seeking numbers for a group buy from Shars. Yet to hear from him.

A few weeks ago I made enquiries from some suppliers in China on prices for Surface plate and granite straight edges. The prices are les than half retail here including freight. However I have learnt after importing my mill that the majority of the costs come from port charges, forwarding fees import duties. I think if half dozen or so people put their hands up it would be worth it, the price would come down a fair bit too as I was quoted for one piece.

Anyway another time and place for that discussion....

Cheers,

Simon

I looked at Usenet newsgroups when I first started on the internet which was sometime before it became mainstream. I looked at some of my hobby groups. Soon gave up. Totally pointless. Only thing you learnt was how to run other people down. One of the reasons why I like this forum so much.

I have also had good results from other forums but I also have to say that I received bad behaviour from the renovators forum. Unimaginative opinionated tradespeople mostly. I avoid them as much as possible in real life and I have not been back to that forum since. I want to learn, not get insulted.

Dean

PDW, I agree that PM has a great depth and breadth of talent - they managed to suggest a solution for a motor problem I was having some time ago and I still visit occasionally. However, you have to find the right place to ask - that forum is immense. My machines are not run of the mill machines that are found in the US, so a lot of the time any questions I have go unanswered as the Euro mill guys don't want to know my mill even though it is a European mill, the Monarch guys don't want to know about my lathe even though it is probably the closest thing to a Monarch 10EE there is that isn't one - and the euro lathe guys don't want it because it's British not Continental Europe. Shapers - try the antique machinery section...

Back to the discussion at hand -
Stuart - are you sure that when Phil offered to grind the top slide he didn't slip a shim under one side so that you'd "have practice working a surface to flat and parallel"?
Before putting a level on the slide, first l'd want to know whether are the tops and bottoms of the slide are parallel, and whether the mating surfaces on the carriage are level - that is, is the issue with the carriage or with the slide?

Michael

A little more work mostly for my own entertainment ATM.
I think we can agree that the blue on the ways is plenty deep.
Nice of them to scrap so deep on the oil grooves that they now cross the way. (can I fill the ends of then in with epoxy?)

Micheal I think Phil took pity on me lol
I'm not sure if it matters if they are parallel or not. As long as they are parallel as an assembly. Having said that the cross slide is pretty parallel(though I cant remember the number) so most of the error must be from the carriage.


Stuart

P.s. the pictures assume that the very nice looking ground ways are infact flat...............

Originally Posted by Stustoys

A little more work mostly for my own entertainment ATM.
I think we can agree that the blue on the ways is plenty deep.
Nice of them to scrap so deep on the oil grooves that they now cross the way. (can I fill the ends of then in with epoxy?)

Micheal I think Phil took pity on me lol
I'm not sure if it matters if they are parallel or not. As long as they are parallel as an assembly. Having said that the cross slide is pretty parallel(though I cant remember the number) so most of the error must be from the carriage.


Stuart

P.s. the pictures assume that the very nice looking ground ways are infact flat...............

Hi Stuart, so these latest pics are of the bottom of your saddle? So your saddle came standard with oil grooves machined in? Aren't you special!

I see the red texta marks on the bed, is that where you believe to have the least amount of wear and therefore best spot to use as a scraping master for the saddle?

Simon

Good work!

Hi fellas...you guys seem to have Stu's geometry problems fixed right up.

WRT to the surface plate buy: using a local car importer got the total costs to around $425 for the 2x 3 foot plate in grade A. Based on 12 pieces. The importer's unit costs should be about the same, you might pay a touch more now for exchange and US domestic shipping for an order of five plates (which is the ideal size for a single small pallet)

Greg Q
The original and only
Accept no substitutes

Hi Simon,
Yes the bottom of the saddle.
Its not the oil grooves so much as the way what ever scraping they have done have extended the grooves that run part the way across the way to grooves that run all the way across way.(I think it shows up in the pictures but then I know what I am looking at, I'll add some arrows.)

The red texta marks are just where I checks the bed for level and then tested the top of the cross slide.

Given the number of hours on my lathe I'd like to think the bed is still.......... well as good as it ever was lol

Stuart

Originally Posted by Greg Q

even more offensive assertion that all of his tools are going to the tip when he dies.

Hi Greg,
Oh its him......... I had heard of him but hadn't joined the dots.

I'm not sure about fixed....... but at least I think I know where I'm headed at least for the minute.

Stuart

Originally Posted by Greg Q

Hi fellas...you guys seem to have Stu's geometry problems fixed right up.

WRT to the surface plate buy: using a local car importer got the total costs to around $425 for the 2x 3 foot plate in grade A. Based on 12 pieces. The importer's unit costs should be about the same, you might pay a touch more now for exchange and US domestic shipping for an order of five plates (which is the ideal size for a single small pallet)

Greg Q
The original and only
Accept no substitutes

Thanks Greg. I'll keep it in mind. Still playing with some ideas on that. They seem different on that forum. I can't help but be drawn to them if purely for the point of scientific research into their human behaviour.......

Hey Stuart, I see what you mean now. Seems unnecessary to extend to grooves the full width and fully interrupt the width of the bearing surface but what would I know, I'm learning new stuff so fast I'm forgetting stuff I'm yet to learn!

ANyway, I was reading my book on this subject and I found a method for checking the saddle & carriage alignment to the bed without using the headstock and in fact not with it even on the lathe.

I have attached it in a word doc. so hopefully you can read it. Hope I'm not showing you how to suck eggs thought it may be helpful since you most likely have all the tools to conduct the test including that big #### granite plate!

Cheers,

Simon

Last picture for tonight promise. I found another good scraping table for those that happen to have a hercus 21" camelback drill.

Hi Simon,
Yes the way I see it if the groove runs all the way across the oil is just going to run out, not stay where it should be and get moved back and forth.

I've seen that page thanks Simon. I have the plate but lack the grond bar and squares needed(Well I have the squares but they are yet to be scraped in). Also my lathe has one Vee and one flat way, though using a packer instead of the back bar shouldnt be a problem(?). It does look to me to be a pretty tricky set up for my ham fisted measuring ablility. How a square on a square on a bar while moving the cross silde....lots of clamps I guess. But even then to clamp it all down and be sure you were well better than 0.001" a ft.


Stuart

Stuart,
Must be the same guys that did my mill saddle that did your saddle oil galleries.
I used a product called quick steel and have used it for years for different things with good results. I used a hand sand blaster to clean the area where it was going and then applied it and it has never moved.

What I did was I drilled a hole on the middle of a 100mm or so square piece of sheet metal around 8mm dia, then placed the sheet metal hole over the part that needed doing and then sandblasted it for a few seconds. It worked great and only did that spot, for long areas I just moved the sheet metal along and did it again. This lets the stuff really get into the pours of the cast and stay there.

The quick steel comes on a plastic tube and you cut a bit off and knead it with your fingers, then apply it. It sets in around 10 minutes but I have found it best to leave it for an hour or so to make sure. I used a sharp Stanley knife blade to shave the excess off as it was drying, but since you scraping just leave it high and scrap it off in the process. It sets almost as hard as steel when dried and is a grey colour.
It comes meant for either steel of aluminium, so get the right one if you go that way.

This is my saddle and you can see a bit in each corner stopping the oil poring out.


When I oil my saddle it wants to come out the side in the centre, so I would say it's like yours.

Dave

Dave,

The cleanliness of your mill table make me sick!

You used that bondo putty stuff to smooth out the castings if I recall your thread. How do you apply it to make it so smooth?

Stuart,

It does look very dicey to say the least. If you can set it up and guarantee no movements then it will be a very good method that doesn't rely on the bed or the headstock. I was thinking that you would probably have to set it up close to the edge to allow clamping of at least some of the members. A parallel under the flat would be a good replacement for the cylinder, in fact it wouldn't matter what you used because the angle plate extends enough to take up any up/down movement that would result if it's not parallel to the surface plate. Any deflection movement on the indicator would still only be created by non parallel movement in the top slide or compound.

Cheers,

Simon

Hi Dave,
This stuff?
QUIKSTEEL STEEL-REINFORCED EPOXY PUTTY HARD IN 4 MINS | eBay (there must be something wrong, thats the cheapest I could find on ebay and its in AUS!)

Not sure I'll get to the saddle ways this time around....... we'll see.

Stuart

Hi Stuart,
Thats the stuff, Check your local auto parts as thats where I buy mine from.
The local spare parts guy who I have known for 25 years said he used to carry it in the tool box to motor cross meetings for his son. His son snapped the brake lever off about half way along and in the pit time they used the aluminium stuff to make a new one. He said it worked for the rest of the day and is still in his shed at home as he took it off when they came home.

It has a black inner and a grey outer, and when you knead it they mix together.

Dave