Thread: Deckel FP2LB

Originally Posted by RayG

Hi John, No, no damage like that, ( we did the slinging, don't trust anyone else for this job!! ) the broken bit is a t-slot casting on head rotation.





Well it runs nice, motor had star/delta connections brought out, so it's running on VFD, gears are very smooth and quiet... .... The oil coolant pump is a nifty little positive displacement pump... mineral oil we think.

Bells are good, they have a factory making dies in China as well as Sydney, very helpful and friendly people as well.

Regards
Ray

Would like to visit one of these days and have a look at the mill.Please let me know when or if it would be suitable.Cheers John.

Its interesting that the head can be put on without the swiveling section. I thought that may be the case with Mlle, but it is not. It would also put the spindle closer to the Z ways, which although may make for a more rigid setup would be a pain. Not that it really needs to be more rigid......

How many ponies Ray? And does it have Spur or helical gears in the box?

I hope your driving weather was better than mine was on Tuesday, Showers on and off all the way. Road works all the way up the Hume too.

Glad its home safe and running.

Cheers,
Ew

Originally Posted by j.ashburn

Would like to visit one of these days and have a look at the mill.Please let me know when or if it would be suitable.Cheers John.

Hi John, No problem, it's going to take a while to get things organized to where it's fully operational, but next time you are coming over this way let me know.


Hi Pete,
A bit more on the broken t-slot, that part of the head is secured with 4 bolts, and as far as we can tell the sole purpose of the T-slot nuts is to provide a bit of resistance so that the head doesn't drop too quickly when it's released, so my wild guess is that someone in the past has overtightened the t-slot nuts mistakenly thinking that locked the head rotation.

Originally Posted by Ewan

Its interesting that the head can be put on without the swiveling section. I thought that may be the case with Mlle, but it is not. It would also put the spindle closer to the Z ways, which although may make for a more rigid setup would be a pain. Not that it really needs to be more rigid......

How many ponies Ray? And does it have Spur or helical gears in the box?

I'll take some pictures when we take the head off a bit later, the motor is a 2.2 KW.. not sure about the type of gears, I'll check the manual...

Regards
Ray

That shed is starting to look full. Is there going to be room for the "next" mill?

24 hour trip and only 2 pictures!

Originally Posted by RayG

A bit more on the broken t-slot, that part of the head is secured with 4 bolts, and as far as we can tell the sole purpose of the T-slot nuts is to provide a bit of resistance so that the head doesn't drop too quickly when it's released, so my wild guess is that someone in the past has overtightened the t-slot nuts mistakenly thinking that locked the head rotation.

But isnt it broken into the tee slots for the quill casting?(only 2 tee bolts?)
Are the 4 other bolt?(pins? number 18 in Joshs diagram right?) for tramming?(seems a bit much)

Stuart

Glad you got it home ok Ray.
What happened to the original 16 hours timeframe??

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I lucked onto a covey of used 40 & 50 taper horizontal arbors today as well as a 15" or thereabouts rotary table today. Rotary was $350 +gst. Didn't price the arbors; but they are local to us.

Ken

Originally Posted by Stustoys

That shed is starting to look full. Is there going to be room for the "next" mill?

24 hour trip and only 2 pictures!



But isnt it broken into the tee slots for the quill casting?(only 2 tee bolts?)
Are the 4 other bolt?(pins? number 18 in Joshs diagram right?) for tramming?(seems a bit much)

Stuart

Nope the vertical milling head is not damaged(well it does not look like it is) just the T slots on the double inclination. I'm not sure yet, and I won't be until I take the head off and have a good poke around but both have a 2 t-bolts and 4 other locking bolts that hold everything together nice and snug.

photo.jpg

The other part that seems to be playing up is the Y axis power feed. The direction selection lever does not seem to be connected to the bevel drive gears it will need closer inspection to see whats going on, hopefully it is just a shear pin or something similar.

Hi Josh,
No no damage to the vertical head.
Damage to the tee slot that holds the vertical head onto the "double inclination" casting ...... I know what I meant lol
I'm sure it will all become clear as you guys get your hands dirty(er)..... enjoy

Are all the feed controls fully mechanical? or could there be an interlock?


Stuart

Originally Posted by Stustoys

That shed is starting to look full. Is there going to be room for the "next" mill?

Umm.... yes, but I had to move the drafting table outside a week or so back...

Originally Posted by Stustoys

24 hour trip and only 2 pictures!

And that was after we got home and unloaded.. Josh did take some pictures of the FP3 in the factory. They said they would get in touch if/when they decided to sell the FP3

I'll take some more pictures of the head and it will all become clearer.

You'd like the universal table, it tilts in both X and Y, and rotates, if you run the column all the way to one end, the table will rotate through 360, which explains why sometimes you see pictures with the table corners facing forward and sometimes facing backward.

All in all, I'm pretty impressed with the Deckel quality.. it's a nice machine, rigid as all get out, large work envelope for it's size, (larger than the HM52 in all axes) very flexible with the head that rotates both ways, and a table that does the same.. with the fixed bed you can handle very large parts, I read somewhere that the bed can take work sized up to 2000 Kg... I can see why a company making injection molding dies would want one..

Originally Posted by Ken

Glad you got it home ok Ray. What happened to the original 16 hours timeframe??

We stopped for a shower and few hours sleep in Goulburn, and just to break the trip. It's about 7-8 hours each way actual travel time. The factory was in Revesby, not far from the M5, so we didn't have to battle too much traffic.

I might be in the market for some 40 taper tooling..

Regards
Ray

Originally Posted by Stustoys

Hi Josh,
No no damage to the vertical head.
Damage to the tee slot that holds the vertical head onto the "double inclination" casting ...... I know what I meant lol
I'm sure it will all become clear as you guys get your hands dirty(er)..... enjoy

Are all the feed controls fully mechanical? or could there be an interlock?


Stuart

Well never doubt Stuart Xray photo skills.

DSCN3102[1].jpg

I think the answer to the why it is damaged question is that the casting is quite slender there and to double down the nuts were done up so tight I had to get the breaker bar onto them.

Not sure if I mentioned it. Also got 2 copies of the original manual with the machine.

photo (1).jpg

Here is a exert from the manual concerning the universal table.

Driven in two axis, I guess the 390kg is a bit much to man handle.

DSCN3103.jpg

Originally Posted by Brobdingnagian

Well never doubt Stuart Xray photo skills.

I think the answer to the why it is damaged question is that the casting is quite slender there and to double down the nuts were done up so tight I had to get the breaker bar onto them.

*bows* lol
I wonder if they had problems with it moving so over tightened it... or over tightening has lead to problems. A lot of the working surface of that tee slot looks butchered.
Given that they have thoughtful broken a big piece out for you. How about 4 tee nuts that are as long as the break for starters. That will let you bridge the bad parts of the tee slot. Then a section that bolts in. It wont carry much load in itself but it will just be a packer to keep the tee nuts "straight"

Stuart

Originally Posted by Stustoys

*bows* lol
I wonder if they had problems with it moving so over tightened it... or over tightening has lead to problems. A lot of the working surface of that tee slot looks butchered.
Given that they have thoughtful broken a big piece out for you. How about 4 tee nuts that are as long as the break for starters. That will let you bridge the bad parts of the tee slot. Then a section that bolts in. It wont carry much load in itself but it will just be a packer to keep the tee nuts "straight"

Stuart

G'day gents,

To echo Stu's comment, there is an interesting improvement that can be made to the Deckel Vertical Heads in the area where the retaining bolts locate (i.e. those that in your machine have broken out the casting).

A German contact who has his own site:

"Wilfried's Vintage Workshop Services for Brough Superior motorcycles and their contemporaries"

encountered a lesser but similar problem with his purchase of a Deckel FP2.

I won't repeat what he did, but instead point you to his site and the section entitled "my small basement workshop" to view the posts regarding his Deckel FP2 and the repairs he performed.

His website is found at the address:

Wilfried's Vintage Workshop

His site is an interesting read and the "fix" he developed might be useful for you to contemplate as you develop your own fix for your machine.

Regards

Quentin

Thanks Quentin,

Nice link and just at the right time...

It's pretty clear now that the original damage was caused by overtightening the T slot nuts, I like Wifried's modifications, that's a good design change.. I note he also found the same T slot problem on the table rotation, we haven't got that far in the dissassembly yet, but I reckon new larger T slot nuts would be a good idea.


I still can't believe Stuart's super-powers extend to x-ray vision while looking at pictures of castings.... that's just too spooky for words.... ( cue the theme music for twilight zone... )

Regards
Ray

Originally Posted by brobdingnagian

well never doubt stuart xray photo skills.

DSCN3102[1].jpg

i think the answer to the why it is damaged question is that the casting is quite slender there and to double down the nuts were done up so tight i had to get the breaker bar onto them.

Not sure if i mentioned it. Also got 2 copies of the original manual with the machine.

photo (1).jpg

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