Thread: Diamond Tool Holder

Originally Posted by bwal74

HI Big Shed,

How'd you go with your purchase? What size did you end up getting? Is it worth the money? I only ask as it's my birthday tomorrow and I'm trying hopefully get one for my Hercus 260.

cheers Ben.

Hi Ben, I have not progressed as yet to actually purchase this tool. There are several reasons for this.

First of all I find their website somewhat confusing as to which size I need for my 9x20 lathe.

Secondly. I have over time become quite proficient at grinding/sharpening my HSS virtually eliminating my need for this tool.

I now almost exclusively use HSS and am able to get a good finish on most materials, including SS, aluminium, brass, copper, 1214, Delrin and a variety of other plastic materials.

Hi,

The main reason I'm looking at them is I'm sick of grinding HSS and my carbide tool (I only have one) doesn't get that good a finish all the time.

Has anyone used the carbide tooling from Ozeseller on Ebay or Mal's stuff? I think they are 5 piece sets.

1/2' 5 PIECE INDEXABLE LATHE TOOL SET

I'm leaning towards the eccentric toolholders as they look pretty good.

Thanks Ben.

I actually have 2 sets of carbide insert type tools. I have a 3/8"-10mm set similar to the one you are showing above, but it includes a boring bar.

I also have a 1/2" set that I obtained with my 9x20 lathe and hardly evr use thatas it doesn't suit the sort of work I do and the profiles of the inserts make it hard to make a sharp right angle internal corner.

Both these sets are hard to use for fine final cuts, but OK for the "roughing" type cuts.

I have therefore spent some time teaching myselg how to shape and sharpen HSS to do the sort of work I do and I am happy with that.

I firmly believe that HSS is the right tooling to use on the sort of small lathe that I have.

At the end of the day, the eccentric tool still uses HSS and that still has to be sharpened, albeit using a jig.

Diamond tool holder Ben. I have the lefthand and right hand and am thinking of buying another for dedicated screwcutting. I have been grinding HSS all my life and just love the speed and economy of resharpening tangential tools. Besides, tangential tools have been around for close to 100 years so they can't be too bad.

Phil

Hi Ben,
Off on a tangent here, but carbide generally needs 3 things to get a nice cut in mild steels. High cutting speed, a large DOC and high feed rate. You really need a high positive rake tool to work well on a smaller lathe, like BT uses. The downside of such tools is they are delicate and prone to chipping. I have been thinking about starting a thread to get info on what inserts members use with what machines and why......might be a good time.
Cheers,
Ew

Originally Posted by bwal74

Hi,

The main reason I'm looking at them is I'm sick of grinding HSS and my carbide tool (I only have one) doesn't get that good a finish all the time.

Has anyone used the carbide tooling from Ozeseller on Ebay or Mal's stuff? I think they are 5 piece sets.

1/2' 5 PIECE INDEXABLE LATHE TOOL SET

I'm leaning towards the eccentric toolholders as they look pretty good.

Thanks Ben.

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

Good question Peter,

I started using high positive Kennametal CCGT inserts when I purchased a SCGCR tool holder. They were what K2 Engineering, the seller, recommended. Subsequently, I've purchased more inserts on Ebay and stuck with the same specification. The third letter refers to tolerance. I don't know what the difference is between G and M. I should find out. Might lead to more, and more importantly, cheaper alternatives.

Bob.

CCGT are not simply the same as CCMT with a tighter tolerance. CCGT inserts are usually polished to a mirror finish, and have truly razor sharp cutting edges. You find out when you handle a CCGT insert for Aluminium the first time. Where CCMT inserts are harmless to your skin, a CCGT cuts a deep wound like a surgical scalpel. You have to be quite good and experienced at grinding and honing HSS toolbits, to get them as sharp as a CCGT insert comes out of the box!

High top rake CCGT inserts are great for general cutting aluminium, brass, plastics, even wood. They are also excellent for fine finishing to precise dimensions with excellent sufrace finishes of steels and even stainless steels. CCGT are just as sharp as the sharpest and most carefully honed and polished HSS bits, and can be used to take extremely shallow depths of cuts, without rubbing. Also ideal for lightweight lathes, that have rigidity problems, because CCGT's have noticeably smaller cutting forces than CCMT inserts. CCGT can be used in the same toolholders as CCMT. Thanks to smaller cutting forces, CCGT's are also ideal for boring bars!

The downsides of CCGT's are: 2 to3 times more expensive than CCMT (because still relatively new and because very much sought after), more fragile (usually the tip breaks if colliding even so lightly with the workpiece), CCGT do not last as long as a CCMT, watch your hands/finger CCGT's have dangerously sharp edges!!!

What I say above is of course valid the same for triangular TCMT vs. TCGT, and pointed DCMT vs DCGT (these are even more fragile of course). Chris

Chris you are a wealth of information. Thanks for taking the time to post that.

Originally Posted by Ueee

Chris you are a wealth of information. Thanks for taking the time to post that.

I have to agree Ewan.
Seriously Chris, is there anything you don't know about, and always very well explained

Phil

Originally Posted by Steamwhisperer

I have to agree Ewan.
Seriously Chris, is there anything you don't know about, and always very well explained

Phil

I think I have some experience with smallish and light lathes up to 10" swing that I can share. I use to call them "hobbylathes" (they probably fit on the compound slide of lathes you are restoring and using ). But I have nearly no experience with larger machines, or have not used one for over 30 years. Chris

I agree with Chris. The CCGT high positive inserts I use cut beautifully but they are extremely delicate. Kennametal make a toolholder designed to allow access to the two shallow angled corners of the rhomboid insert. Sadly, I don't have one though I do have a couple of dozen inserts with the pointy corners sheared off.

Bob.

Originally Posted by cba_melbourne

I think I have some experience with smallish and light lathes up to 10" swing that I can share. I use to call them "hobbylathes" (they probably fit on the compound slide of lathes you are restoring and using ). But I have nearly no experience with larger machines, or have not used one for over 30 years. Chris

Hi Chris,
I think you would make the transition back to the larger machines with ease. About the only difference is the awareness factor. It's unbelievable how aware you are of your mortality when you have a 20" 4 jaw chuck spinning at close to 1000 revs while you lean in to bring the tool up to the work.
I'm still learning heaps from your posts

Originally Posted by bwal74

Hi,

The main reason I'm looking at them is I'm sick of grinding HSS and my carbide tool (I only have one) doesn't get that good a finish all the time.

Has anyone used the carbide tooling from Ozeseller on Ebay or Mal's stuff? I think they are 5 piece sets.

1/2' 5 PIECE INDEXABLE LATHE TOOL SET

I'm leaning towards the eccentric toolholders as they look pretty good.

Thanks Ben.

My advice is to avoid these tool sets. I bought one when I got my lathe and they now sit unused. I had nothing but chipped tools at first. I then tightened up the slack in my toolpost mount (broken on one side) and the situation improved, a bit. Still had chipped tools tho. I started using a SECO holder and name brand tips and the problem disappeared altogether.

The tools may be cheaper but I have found that if you look around you can get good quality tips for less than the cheap ones. I have a set of 9 20mm tools doing nothing. Probably include them with my lathe when I move it on. It has been sold but he is in no hurry. Gives me more time to get the slab organised for my new one.

Dean

Apologies Ben, I seem to have gone a bit off topic there
I was thinking that about the only thing you can't, oops sorry, no such word as can't , would have difficulty with in a diamond toolholder, is if you wanted to grind a form tool to machine say, a large diameter radius but if a bloke was clever enough with a tool and cutter grinder, a large piece of HSS could be ground at the back to suit the holder and the front ground to suit the form. Just thinkin'.

Phil

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

I agree with Chris. The CCGT high positive inserts I use cut beautifully but they are extremely delicate. Kennametal make a toolholder designed to allow access to the two shallow angled corners of the rhomboid insert. Sadly, I don't have one though I do have a couple of dozen inserts with the pointy corners sheared off.

Bob.

Bob, exactly what I do. As CCGT's are pricy (the 6mm cost between $70 and 120 for a pack of 10) I try to use the two shallow angle tips too. What you want is a toolholder set from Glanze. Glanze makes affordable low cost toolholders for hobby use, but they are really good. It is the only India made tools that I can genuinely recommend - under one condition: you need to buy one good quality high tensile Torx screw for eachtoolholder. These screws are usually Swiss made and retail for about $2 each. If you use the India made soft screws that come with the toolholders, you qyickly damage the thread and can toss the toolholder goodbye. These Glanze sets contain the usual toolholders and a boring bar, plus two toolholders for facing and turning to use the two normally unused insert tips. Chris