Thread: Disecting his Imperial Majesty

G'day Bob,
I came across this on a site I visit now and again looking for Thiel bits and pieces and thought it might be of interest to you given your current dilemma.

Used Precision Universal Milling Machines Schaublin / Kaiser

Now I'm not suggesting you want to risk throwing more good money after bad but for 120 euro the Schaublin head doesn’t sound like too much of a gamble and is probably less than the cost of the ISO30 adaptor from Kaiser.
Of course if you’re feeling really game you could even roll the dice on the Kaiser for 200 euro, worst case you could have a nice set of bookends which is far more useful than a paperweight.

I have no idea how this site works as far as buying something goes as I have only ever browsed but if nothing else there is a lot of very nice gear to look at.

Cheers,
Greg.

Originally Posted by kwijibo99

G'day Bob,
I came across this on a site I visit now and again looking for Thiel bits and pieces and thought it might be of interest to you given your current dilemma.

Used Precision Universal Milling Machines Schaublin / Kaiser

Now I'm not suggesting you want to risk throwing more good money after bad but for 120 euro the Schaublin head doesn’t sound like too much of a gamble and is probably less than the cost of the ISO30 adaptor from Kaiser.
Of course if you’re feeling really game you could even roll the dice on the Kaiser for 200 euro, worst case you could have a nice set of bookends which is far more useful than a paperweight.

I have no idea how this site works as far as buying something goes as I have only ever browsed but if nothing else there is a lot of very nice gear to look at.

Cheers,
Greg.

Hello Greg,

I chanced upon that site post purchase and thought, ah FM!

I enlarged the photo and there are differences between the head I have and the Romanian. Now, knowing how susceptible Kaisers are to ill effects resulting from a lack of care and looking at the rotary table and its ploughed table, has made me calm enough to proceed with the hopeful renovation of mine.

I don't think I could cope with the Kaiser as a shelf ornament. Two years of looking at a tool and cutter grinder better suited to the role of boat anchor is enough to put me off owning another POS.

Bob.

I managed to do a little bit more this evening and have inched closer to the Bob Part (actually, I've gotten there but if I say that now you'll skip the narrative and just do the pictures). Who needs a multi-billion dollar CERN facility when you have a shed?

Today I managed to remove the vernier ring. It is a moving vernier scale that when used in conjunction with the middle scale ring enables you to dial in precise diameters. It is secured with another ring by 3 screws that come up from underneath and are normally covered by the slide. As is the case with every other moving part in this head, the old dried oil had gummed things up incredibly so that it wouldn't move, so a gentle tap or two was required to dislodge it. Once off I was able to soak in kero and then wire brush things out. In the first photo below, the main spindle is at the back, the vernier ring is to the right and in the foreground is the retaining ring. Wire brushing the outside of parts is easy enough but how do you do the inside? The next photo shows the tool you need - boiler tube brushes. These go from 1/8" diameter up to 1/2".

P1020025 (Medium).JPG P1020029 (Medium).JPG

Bob was concerned because his vernier scale ring would only rotate through 90 degrees. Here's why - it has a stop hidden in there (which I shall call the Bob Part in his honour). The first photo below shows the retaining ring in the vernier scale ring with the stop mid point. The next photo shows it mounted up on the spindle. One of the great mysteries of the universe is solved!

P1020026 (Medium).JPG P1020027 (Medium).JPG

The next part should be relatively easy - the final part to be removed is the central gear. It looks to be held in with an extractor pin from each side (and locked with a grubscrew from underneath - again normally hidden by the slide. I'll have to make up a small slide hammer to pull them out. The silly thing is that the extraction thread is M2.5 - I'll never use that again. At least M3 would be common-ish.
P1020028 (Medium).JPG

Michael

Michael,

Will the vernier rotate only 90 degress or the full ( and vastly more useful ) 360 degrees as Roland at Kaiser suggests?

Bob.

ps. When reassembling the slide, observe the position of the numbered cover strip. I assembled mine reversed from the original position shown in the photo below and the slide jammed. Using some appropriately slender watchmaker's tweezers I was able the lift the strip up and off the slide pinion gear on which it had jammed. Stress better off avoided.

015 (Large).JPG

Hi Michael and Bob.
Been following this thread with great interest (mainly academic - as I'm unlikely to ever be able to find one I can afford....).
Michael: what woulf be the consequences of removing the Bob part and allowing the ring to rotate 360?

G'day Michael,
Sorry to deviate from the main topic but can I just ask if you got your brush set direct from Tanis in the US or is there a local distributor?
Cheers,
Greg.

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

Will the vernier rotate only 90 degress or the full ( and vastly more useful ) 360 degrees as Roland at Kaiser suggests?

From what I have been able to see, the ring with the vernier scale (the lower ring)only rotates through 90 degrees. The middle ring with the scale on it will rotate through 360 degrees. I suspect that there was confusion around part identification.

Originally Posted by jhovel

What would be the consequences of removing the Bob part and allowing the ring to rotate 360?

You could remove the stop and it would not hurt anything as far as I can tell. I don't know whether it would give any real benefit. The ring moves to allow more convenient setting of the boring diameter. You really only need to be able to move it the equivalent of it's own length.

Originally Posted by kwijibo99

Can I ask if you got your brush set direct from Tanis in the US or is there a local distributor?

I got the boiler brush set from a distributor in the US. If we had a member here who worked with steam equipment they might be able to suggest a local source.

Michael

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

When reassembling the slide, observe the position of the numbered cover strip. I assembled mine reversed from the original position shown in the photo below and the slide jammed. Using some appropriately slender watchmaker's tweezers I was able the lift the strip up and off the slide pinion gear on which it had jammed. Stress better off avoided.

Thanks for the pointer Bob. The two sides are only a mm different in length. I didn't notice the number there but in the right light it's just visible. I assume it is a serial number - be interesting to know whether that ties to build date.

Michael

Originally Posted by Michael G

I got the boiler brush set from a distributor in the US. If we had a member here who worked with steam equipment they might be able to suggest a local source.

Michael

Now who would that be.
Used to get them from 'Wilson' but these boilers don't have tubes so I don't have a call for them anymore.
Have to be at work soon so I will do a bit of research tonight.

Phil

Originally Posted by kwijibo99

G'day Michael,
Sorry to deviate from the main topic but can I just ask if you got your brush set direct from Tanis in the US or is there a local distributor?
Cheers,
Greg.

Greg,

While not the same as the twisted handle versions Michael has, bore cleaners might do in a pinch - Special Line Bore Cleaning Brushes Brass Bronze 243 6mm 25 257 3 Pack NEW | eBay

I searched on US eBay and found some like Michael's but they were US shipping only.

Bob.

G'day Bob,
I have tried bore brushes and while they work ok for light brushing they tend to bend at the threaded joint if you need to be a bit more vigorous.
The single piece brushes don't have this problem which is why I'm keen to get my hands on some.
I've had a couple of old ones for years but all the wire bristles are just about worn of them both off and I really need to get new ones at some point.
If Phil can come up with a local supplier that would be great but if not then I'll just have to work something out with a US supplier.
Thanks for your help fellas.
Cheers,
Greg.

Originally Posted by kwijibo99

G'day Bob,
I have tried bore brushes and while they work ok for light brushing they tend to bend at the threaded joint if you need to be a bit more vigorous.
The single piece brushes don't have this problem which is why I'm keen to get my hands on some.
I've had a couple of old ones for years but all the wire bristles are just about worn of them both off and I really need to get new ones at some point.
If Phil can come up with a local supplier that would be great but if not then I'll just have to work something out with a US supplier.
Thanks for your help fellas.
Cheers,
Greg.

Hey Greg,

I just had a look in an old paper version of the Blackwoods catalogue and there are boiler tube brushes listed ranging in size from 22 to 152mm along with brass and steel condenser tube brushes, 6 to 25mm in diameter. They are shown as being made by McDonald Dixbro P/L . I've had the catalogue for at least a decade so how relevant this information is is anyone's guess.

Bob.

Might not be suited to your purpose, but I was at McJing on Saturday and saw some bore brushes (or similar). There were several sizes over a range approx 5 - 20 mm from memory. They looked to have a twisted core of steel wire, with brass bristles.
Regards,
Bill

I got the worm gear out tonight - bit of an anti-climax really - before making up a slide hammer I screwed in a M2.5 x 20 SHCS and found that (once the keeper grub screws were out) it came out without too many dramas. I've cleaned that up so I should be able to start reassembly soon.

I had an inquiry in to Kluber regarding the oil to use. I'd originally thought that for a small mechanism like this a light oil would be required (sewing machine oil for example). Kaiser recommended Kluber Isoflex PDP 95 which is no longer made so the Kluber people recommended PDP65. However, there is none in Australia, minimum package size is a litre and will cost $410 for that amount. It's viscosity at 40 degrees C (ie shed temperature today) is around 68 - the same as the oil I use on the lathe so guess what I intend to use...

Michael