Thread: Disecting his Imperial Majesty

Originally Posted by Michael G

You know, I'm not quite sure. The 1/2" shaft has a thread in it, so I don't know whether there is meant to be an adaptor (double cone to go into a 30 taper for example), there is a machine out there that has a spindle that will suit this, or whether you just grasp the spindle in a drill chuck and throw caution to the wind. Personally to check the motion I've been using the last method

Michael

MG, I'm under the impression your head suits a SIP jig borer. Here's an image from Tony's site.

SIP.jpg

Thanks Bob. That's about the first picture I've seen of an imperial head stop. I was wondering what the graduations should be.

Michael

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

MG, I'm under the impression your head suits a SIP jig borer. Here's an image from Tony's site.

Damn, jig borer just came to me.... you beat me to it. Its tapered on the inside to fit the spindle?


I'm sure you'll get in there Bob. Maybe a slow roast and then some freezing spray...... or just hand it to Michael and look the other way

Stuart

A more than rough sketch of the vernier stop along with a few close ups. The asterisked dimensions are as good as I can achieve with my .001mm Tesamaster mic. At least that works.

012 (Large).JPG

BT

Brilliant - you're a Prince Bob, although I hope you will pardon me if I don't work to the limits of your measuring equipment.

Michael

Originally Posted by Michael G

Brilliant - you're a Prince Bob, although I hope you will pardon me if I don't work to the limits of your measuring equipment.

Michael

Now Michael, while the 13 is good, I don't reckon I could either. Stu once said the best you could realistically aim for with a mill is a thou (if you are lucky). These bitty dimensions are by chance things. I'm sure Kaiser would have had a + - tolerance.

Should you require additional dimensions, just ask.

Bob.

I went to remake that stop today and discovered that it was not as bad as I thought it was. The scallop for the stop is just in the right place and apart from it being 0.5mm too high it is fine. Next to it is Bob's stop which apart from a lick with a file to get some clearance in the corners slides along quite nicely.
P1020058.jpg

I tried the head today with a battery drill driving to see how the stop arrangement works. Apparently it just does that - stops. I though that the facing/ boring selector was part of it but no - that stays put. If I reversed the drive it would back away from the stop, so nothing switches or needs resetting. Have to think some more about that.

Michael

Well Michael, you've had better results than I have. I soaked the head in WD-40 overnight and this afternoon had another go with the 18 inch Bahco. Nothing, not even the slightest suggestion of movement. I won't use the bigger shifter for fear of breaking something.

If I have the stop tightened and set the selector to facing, the feed will tighten up against the stop . It does not disengage. If facing using rapid traverse it works well.

I'm now thinking along the lines of Stuart's suggestion that maybe the pinned collar at the base of the STP taper is the answer??? I'm hoping that someone at Kaiser might know.

I revised my reversing stop. I have used a shortened Kaiser cap screw and decreased the height of the tee nut to suit. I made a 7mm diameter x 2.6mm high sleeve to fit the tee nut. The sleeve engages the rear of the scallop rather than the previous version which pinched the scallop's side. Instead of fooling around with oil and a gas torch, I used my Blackfast kit for a bit of restrained colour.

BT

Here is why I'm nervous about getting too manly with the wrench. These photos belong to the seller of my head.

IMG_2131.jpg

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

Stu,

I've just mutilated a pair of circlip plier tips trying to move the ring. I will contact Kaiser again for some hopeful clarification of this comment - To dismantle the head the 3 pins have to be drilled out (your suggestion was right..), so the “shank part” can be loosen like a screw.

BT

Bob,
I think Stu is right: only the inner ring will unscrew - no the arbour.
I would make a flat plate - maybe 10" long, the width a bit wider than the inner ring around the arbor, and maybe 1/4" or more thick. Then drill a hole - maybe even tapered - to fit snugly around the arbor so only it becomes the pivot, and drill 3 holes to match the pin holes. Then make up a collar/spacer that sits on it and is held in place by a nut on your arbor end, holding the flat plate (3-pin spanner) tight against the ring face. Maybe using a spring washer (not tight) to allow a small axial movement once things move a little. Using some tough steel pins (not hardened, in case they shear and you can't drill them out again!) I would then try and unscrew the ring - praying not to shear the pins the whole time..... In fact, I think I would make a test rig with 3 holes and determine the maximum torque the pins will allow before shearing off - and stay just below that force on the Kaiser part. If that doesn't unscrew it, I think you may have to think about increasing the hole size - or drill some new larger "disassembly holes" which don't go right through the ring, so allowing you to replace the 3 pins in their original holes to lock into the gear below.
Once the ring moves, you will need to progressively loosen the nut on the arbor to allow it to unscrew of course.

If that ring is hardened - Michael will be able to tell you - then you might have to consider EDM drilling new holes....

All this is certainly not the end of the options, so don't give up!

Lastly, somehow heating the ring with a pencil torch (and some strategically placed heat shields) might just expand it enough to loosen the bond in the thread - god forbid someone has put Loktite or some such in there! Once you have made the tool, you could then try and unscrew it with the ring still hot.....

Anyway, I'm just thinking aloud here.....

Bob, does your belove'd employer have any die penetrant testing stuff? That would be one way to see whether the arbor and the ring surrounding it are one piece or two.
I can't explain why the head you have pictured is damaged like that but I suspect that it comes under the heading of "someone doing something stupid". If you remove the stops from the side of the slide you should be able to hold the slide in the vice. Any torque will be taken on the sides of the main body. While I'm not saying you couldn't break that it would take a lot of effort, far more than you could muster with an 18" shifter. When mine finally gave in it I was using a 10" chain wrench.

Michael

Michael , Stu and Joe,

It looks like the collar is the answer. I asked the question last night on the Aciera - Old Swiss Tools Yahoo group site. Charles Devaulx provided this reply -


Hello,


I already dismantled one in the past, a recent model. The previous owner broke the screw which block the translation in the tapered hole...

The procedure is good; you have to drill the 3 pins and then unscrew the ground collar. You can't remove the shank, it's in one part with the head.

Be really careful when you remove the ground collar, there is a lot of small balls under. It's them which create this so smooth movement of the rotating collar.

I hope I've been clear enough..

By the way I found this is a very beautiful head but the three pins is not the best idea they had. A friend of mine open one of them recently, the pins where hardened and finally he broke the drill. He had to destroy the ground collar to open the head. When I re-assembled mine I made a brass pin to be sure to avoid this kind of problem.

Best regards


Charles

It does make sense that the STP arbor is an integral part of the head as per the 1/2 " hollow arbor on Michael's head. Kaiser's suggestion of removing the pins and unscrewing the arbor could have been a mis-translation .

So, armed with Joe's suggestions, I will proceed to make a pinned ring spanner.

BT

Is that a light at the end of the tunnel? (or just the train charging this way?)

The brass pin idea sounds sensible too - I might do that as the only wire I have currently is slightly undersize.

Michael

Sounds like you guys are getting close to unravelling the mysteries of the Kaiser.

I notice that guy said the shank and head were one piece? I thought they were replaceable with different shank options, based on earlier manuals BT posted.

Maybe it's like the Wohlhaupter, where there are different models some fixed and some removable..

Ray