Thread: Disecting his Imperial Majesty

Thank you Michael for the evisceration pictorial but I'm still stumped. Where was the lock pin located on the Imp?

I've spent the day bathed in sweat both because of the heat and the tension from having mine jam a couple of times as a result of my tampering. I have not as yet wired anything off to Kaiser in Switzerland but I've taken a number of photos in preparation.

Here is the top side of mine. Removal of the three M4 cap screws has no effect. Nothing comes apart. There's a trio of 1mm diameter pins exposed on the flat at the base of the taper and I do not know their purpose. They could be the end of screws? My fear is stuffing the thing up. Maybe I'll just wait and see if the Swiss are sympathetic.

To the other few that may be interested in this esoterica, I told Michael that we are both missing an additional stop. Staring at me in the catalogue cover photo is a cylindrical stop to the left of the verniered stop. Never noticed it. It is missing on the other Kaiser heads I have photos of. Information regarding these heads is thin, gossamer bloody thin. Might be different if I spoke German or French.

Bob.

ps.

Michael mentioned an oil gun specifically for Kaiser heads he had found on Ebay. Swiss pricing at 98 US plus 33.12 postage. I have a couple of Wanners that look the same apart from the nose. The important bit is the label.

Need some Vactra II Michael, I've probably still got 17 litres of the stuff.

I only had one pin. I didn't take a before photo as it was in the cone around the spindle but here is the exit hole. The thickness of that part is only around 9 or 10mm on mine
P1020006 pins.JPG

On yours I think these are the pins that need to be drilled (and one around the back)
071 pins (Large).JPG

The spindle on mine is fixed but I think that yours will unscrew - mind you, the thread is around 0.5mm pitch, so making up a change over will be a challenge.

As for lube, I was going to use sewing machine oil. The Penetrene does get in. Perhaps I should use that?

Michael

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

Michael mentioned an oil gun specifically for Kaiser heads he had found on Ebay. Swiss pricing at 98 US plus 33.12 postage. I have a couple of Wanners that look the same apart from the nose. The important bit is the label.

Need some Vactra II Michael, I've probably still got 17 litres of the stuff.

Bob,
That oil gun looks the same as the one for the Myford, if so welcome to the world of oil leaks everywhere. At least it keeps the rust at bay. Atom supply in Perth used to carry then, not sure about now though. The Kaiser looks like a neat bit of gear. Alan.

Originally Posted by C-47

Bob,
That oil gun looks the same as the one for the Myford, if so welcome to the world of oil leaks everywhere. At least it keeps the rust at bay. Atom supply in Perth used to carry then, not sure about now though. The Kaiser looks like a neat bit of gear. Alan.

Ha! I am well versed in Wanner haemorrhage Alan though to be fair on the Swiss, my pair of Alemite pom pom oilers as much oil. Like you say, a rust combatant. On a day like today I'd just about have to dip my hands in axle grease before I touched any thing in the shed!

I had a re read of the Kaiser instructions. They recommend Kluber Isoflex PDO 94 oil ( but they would wouldn't they ). I had a look on Ebay.Talk about haemorrhaging !!

And you will like the Kaiser, typically Swiss.

Bob.

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

To the other few that may be interested in this esoterica, I told Michael that we are both missing an additional stop. .

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

Getting some training in Michael ! Next is one of these.

I'm guessing this is the stop?

Those little heads sure make the Wholhaupters look simple inside. Its such a shame they are damaged. I know Bob didn't know until he got his, i take it you are in the same boat Michael? I also know what Bob paid.....ouch. For that money you would expect to be able to pull it out of the box and use it.

Ew

Originally Posted by Ueee

I'm guessing this is the stop?

Those little heads sure make the Wholhaupters look simple inside. Its such a shame they are damaged. I know Bob didn't know until he got his, i take it you are in the same boat Michael? I also know what Bob paid.....ouch. For that money you would expect to be able to pull it out of the box and use it.

Ew

Yes Ew, that's MG's missing stop. Bit more complicated that the reversing stop that is absent on both our heads.

It is a prick when you throw a fair bit of dough at something and find on arrival that it doesn't function as it should. More of a prick when the seller says that it wasn't damaged when it left France but less of a prick when the damage is just noticeable in one of his otherwise very comprehensive photos. Then there was the admission that the seller had not tried to rotate the vernier ring which, like Michael's, was locked solid. Michael fared no better. Here is the seller's description of the head he bought.

Kaiser swiss Expandible Boring Head
Diameter: 5''
shank Dia: .500''

High Presicion 0.0002 Dia.

It is used but in the best condicion, work perfectly.

And mine ...

Used, but in very good condition (see pics) and fully functionnal - Extremely precise, with a vernier dial down to 0,005mm on the diameter - Floating zero ring (wich means that you can set the zero wherever you want it to be)

Floating zero ring?? Might have floated 50 years ago and then only 90 degrees.

I think that anyone entertaining the purchase of a complex boring and facing head, be it a Wohlhaupter, a Narex, a Gamet or a whatever, faces the uncertainty of not really knowing the condition and in many cases, the age of the tool. Does mine look like it was made in the 1960's ?

Bob.

Originally Posted by Ueee

I know Bob didn't know until he got his, i take it you are in the same boat Michael? I also know what Bob paid.....ouch. For that money you would expect to be able to pull it out of the box and use it.

I paid much less than Bob for the one I got but it didn't have the box or any accessories. Bob was also buying from someone with a history of knowing about these heads while I was buying from someone who normally sold baseball cards, so I class my result as just disappointing. However, I was still expecting something that worked. Apart from the missing stop (which was spotted by Bob in the ad) the slide on this one would not move. Looks to be a combination of years of neglect & muck plus a chewed up gear. I suspect the chewed gear is a result of engaging the facing action without gently working the head until the gears align. Some people don't deserve to have nice kit to use.

Certainly in comparison a Wohlhaupter is simple.

Michael

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

Yes Ew, that's MG's missing stop. Bit more complicated that the reversing stop that is absent on both our heads.

It is a prick when you throw a fair bit of dough at something and find on arrival that it doesn't function as it should. More of a prick when the seller says that it wasn't damaged when it left France but less of a prick when the damage is just noticeable in one of his otherwise very comprehensive photos. Then there was the admission that the seller had not tried to rotate the vernier ring which, like Michael's, was locked solid. Michael fared no better. Here is the seller's description of the head he bought.

Kaiser swiss Expandible Boring Head
Diameter: 5''
shank Dia: .500''

High Presicion 0.0002 Dia.

It is used but in the best condicion, work perfectly.

And mine ...

Used, but in very good condition (see pics) and fully functionnal - Extremely precise, with a vernier dial down to 0,005mm on the diameter - Floating zero ring (wich means that you can set the zero wherever you want it to be)

Floating zero ring?? Might have floated 50 years ago and then only 90 degrees.

I think that anyone entertaining the purchase of a complex boring and facing head, be it a Wohlhaupter, a Narex, a Gamet or a whatever, faces the uncertainty of not really knowing the condition and in many cases, the age of the tool. Does mine look like it was made in the 1960's ?

Bob.

after reading the first lot of posts regarding your purchases and now this I am glad I stopped looking...your advice of " not really knowing the condition" is heeded. I will stick with the universal I got from Taiwan tools a couple years back....I have tried it and it works . but I still dont really know how to use it correctly I guess

Originally Posted by eskimo

after reading the first lot of posts regarding your purchases and now this I am glad I stopped looking...your advice of " not really knowing the condition" is heeded. I will stick with the universal I got from Taiwan tools a couple years back....I have tried it and it works . but I still dont really know how to use it correctly I guess

How about a few photos of the Taiwan Tools version Richard.

Bob.

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

How about a few photos of the Taiwan Tools version Richard.

Bob.

Hi Bob

the one I got is the same as the one that H&F flog off...not even in the same league as yours

these are the instructions with some pics...I could'nt understand the instructions that came with it

More Kaiser kapers!
I spoke previously about how the head was driven. I've now cleaned up the scale ring so the "worm" can be seen. This drives the worm wheel in the next picture (yet to be cleaned)

P1020023 (Medium).JPG P1020011 (Medium).JPG
One of the features of this head is that it has a clutch that will automatically shut off if over loaded - either too deep a cut or hits the stop that Bob has made. There is nothing obvious there but I have a theory...
The ring closest to the spindle has a selector switch that goes from boring to facing. That flicks a small gear up or down. As mentioned before, when the gear is down it only engages the lower gear (not linked to the spindle) and when up, engages both in an action like a cycloid gearbox. The first photo is of that ring disassembled. The small gear sits in the pocket. Top and bottom are a couple of 3.5mm balls acting as a single point spindle, with a spring to take up the slack. The pushing up and down in done with a cam on the selector switch. To change from facing to boring takes very little effort so I think that as soon as the feed encounters some resistance, the gear flips down taking the head from facing to "boring". What's more, once in boring mode, twisting the scale ring (the one in the first picture) is the equivalent of a fast return stroke. Damn cunning.

P1020017 (Medium).JPG
The down side is how sensitive to muck these are. This next photo is a close up of the pocket for the gear (with the ball a the bottom). Eventually I had to push a rag into the sintered brass bush as just a slight amount of muck made it not move up and down smoothly. I'd hate to have one of these in a dusty climate. Perhaps that Swiss mania for clean is just because they know their boring heads will jam up without it.
P1020021 (Medium).JPG

Michael

I feel somewhat uncomfortable that Michael's misfortune in purchasing a tool that he has had to dissect has turned into a great benefit for me for me but I think we will both benefit in the end. This thread will hopefully serve as a warning to maybe a few others about the perils sometimes associated with acquiring the exotic.

I emailed Kaiser in Switzerland early this morning and received a reply 7 1/2 hours later. Whilst not what I hoped for, the confirmation that drilling out the 3 pins as suggested by Michael, to enable the removal of the arbor, is enough.

Here's my message followed by Kaiser's reply.

Hello,

I am hoping that you may be able to help me with a few questions I have concerning a boring head I recently acquired. I do realise the head is quite old, probably dating back to the 1960s.

The vernier ring does not rotate 360 degrees. It is limited to about 90 degrees of movement. I have indicated the amount of rotation with a blue pen on the head in the attached photos.The ring stops hard against a metallic stop within the body of the head. Was this normal for this head?

When I acquired the head the ring would not move. Application of penetrating oil over a number of days has resulted in movement but it is still difficult to rotate.

The facing feed and rapid traverse function well though I am not certain about the operation of the clutch.

The head would benefit from being dismantled and cleaned but I am uncertain as to how the head is assembled and the correct procedure for disassembly. A suggestion has been made that the three small (1mm ) diameter pins located around the base of the arbor require removal by drilling to enable the detachment of the P-A ring. ??

Is an exploded parts diagram and any other instructions still available for this head ? Was this head called a Piccolo?

Also, is an ISO 30 arbor available to fit this head?

The only information I have is a scanned brochure from, I imagine, the 1970s. The head illustrated in the brochure is the same as that shown in a 1974 Schaublin 13 accessories catalogue. The head I have appears similar to that offered by Schaublin as an accessory for their No.13 mill in the early 1960's.

Any assistance you can provide will be greatly appreciated.

Regards

Bob Thomas
...........
Western Australia.

Dear Sir,

Thank you for your e-mail.

Let us answer to your various questions:

First of all the “bad news”:
This is a very old boring and facing head PICCOLO.
Unfortunately there are no spare parts available any more –your head is a very old execution (way back to the late 50’s…).
There is no exploded parts diagram available – but you will find a manual in the attachment (hope this is of use for you).

These heads have been discontinued from our product range since several years ago – a new head will not be available.
KAISER in generally is not prepared to let any drawing at somebody’s disposal – sorry - but we hope for your comprehension.

I have been talking to the person in the repair department,
- The Vernier ring should rotate 360 degrees (there is something wrong inside the head)
- To dismantle the head the 3 pins have to be drilled out (your suggestion was right..), so the “shank part” can be loosen like a screw.
- There is an adapter available for ISO30 (the shank mounted on your head is what we called an “STP-connection”. This adapter will be mounted on this STP-shank
(STP shank shown on page 2 of attachment)

Unfortunately we don’t have any better news for you.

Best regards
KAISER Precisiontooling Ltd
Sales / Roland Wey

I was definitely lured by the seller's superb photos and the comment that the head functioned correctly. Had I known better the age of the head and been aware of it's intricacies, my bidding may have been more restrained.

BT

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

I feel somewhat uncomfortable that Michael's misfortune in purchasing a tool that he has had to dissect has turned into a great benefit for me but I think we will both benefit in the end. This thread will hopefully serve as a warning to maybe a few others about the perils sometimes associated with acquiring the exotic.

Funny - I see it the other way. I buy quality used gear whenever I can because I can't afford the new and once I have it, clean it up as best I can. In this case (and it applied to the Taster as well) the item has arrived below expectations and so I have a choice of an expensive paperweight or stripping down to repair. I don't use paperweights so there is nothing to lose getting stuck in. I post pictures and results so that others in similar circumstances can benefit* from my situation, so I'm actually glad that Bob is able to use some of the information I've gained.
Will I change my buying habits after this episode? Well, I don't consciously seek out these problems but I haven't been able to stop looking at "exotica" yet, so I suspect that it will happen again.

Michael

*Or even just have their curiosity satisfied on how something works

Originally Posted by Anorak Bob

This thread will hopefully serve as a warning to maybe a few others about the perils sometimes associated with acquiring the exotic.

It's always been a crap shoot, unfortunately. I have a Plath sextant bought off of Fleabay about 10 years ago. As an instrument for navigation, it makes a great paperweight. The term 'butchered' really doesn't adequately describe it.

Wasn't even real cheap!!!!

PDW