Thread: Drawbar Tool Removal

You need a drill drift to remove them its essentially a wedge easy to make file a file and a hacksaw

Originally Posted by oohsam

Hi Guys,
Firstly let me apologise for my terminology as I am quite new to the milling machine world, I am doing a tafe course to assist in my skill level so I may get a few things wrong. What may seem like a very simple question is not so simple for the likes of my skill level around a mill, so with that, I begin.

I bought a MMD45 from paramount browns as most of you may know.

It came with an MT4 Piece like this



and in the drawbar is a tapered spindle that the drill chuck fits into. I dont know how to remove that spindle, as it came with no tools to remove. I'm thinking they left the tool to remove it out of the box, but am unsure...

can anyone with some knowledge give me some insight on how to remove it.

Cheers.

Sam

Hi Sam, welcome to the group, and I'm sure that you will find plenty of support and encouragement here. Firstly the terminology, what I think you are trying to ask is how to remove the piece like the pictured item in your post. If so that pictured item is an adaptor sleeve or commonly just referred to as a sleeve, or a 4/3 sleeve if it is Morse taper 4 on the outside and Morse taper3 on the inside. As Welder has said, that is removed by using a wedge shaped drift like the one he pictured, by forcing the tang, (the black end on your picture) down and out of the spindle (which is the rotating vertical shaft, with the Morse socket in your mill). You will have to align the slots in your spindle with the slots in the quill in order to insert the drift. (If your mill is equipped with a quill, it is the cylindrical housing which holds the spindle, and allows it to be raised and lowered over a limited range, but with fairly precise movement.) The drawbar is the threaded shaft which pulls any male morse tapered tools up into the female morse socket on the spindle. In the case where a drawbar is used instead of a tang on the small end of the morse taper, there is a female thread which the drawbar threads into At the top of the spindle a shoulder on the top of the drawbar mates against it as the drawbar is tightened, and so holds the tool in the spindle, preventing any movement due to vibration or cutting forces etc. Most morse taper to ER series collet chucks will have the threaded end, while drills with morse taper shanks always have the tang, as in use the forces are pushing the drill bit into the socket and not pulling it out, while helical cutters or end mills, would often have cutting forces which would be pulling the tool out from the socket if no drawbar was used. I hope this helps, and in the meantime I will look for some online diagrams of the various parts of a small mill, to assist in getting your head around it all. Keep asking questions though, we have all had to learn at some time. Regards,
Rob

Thanks for the replies guys.
Makes alot of sense. The image I posted Is not what is stuck in my mill, I should have been more clear.

I belive what is in the mill right now is what is commonly referred to as an 'arbour'

(The piece on the left of this image) Which the drill chuck goes into.



That is the piece that is in my mill and I'm not sure how to remove that..or should it be with the same method?
Maybe I just haven't seen the tang. I'll pop out and have another look.

I feel very silly to be honest. Thank you for having patience with me and explaining things. I really appreciate it

So your trying to remove a drill arbor from the spindle ?

Yes. I believe so, but the drill chuck is not on there. Just the arbour..

Originally Posted by oohsam

I feel very silly to be honest.

Don't feel silly, just post some pictures when ever you aren't sure of what to call something.. you'll soon get the hang of it.

Ray

Thanks guys!

I just watched some videos of guys removing arbours but I cant see where the tang is.

This is what my machine looks like (off another site) i'll take some pictures of my own machine when i get home shortly.

If you wind/ crank the spindle down you should see a slot in the side that the drift goes into.

Michael

Originally Posted by oohsam

Thanks guys!

I just watched some videos of guys removing arbours but I cant see where the tang is.

This is what my machine looks like (off another site) i'll take some pictures of my own machine when i get home shortly.

If your mill really is a mill and not a drill press labeled as a mill, it should have a draw bar going down through the spindle from the top. That draw bar is used to retain the tooling.

Mills typically do not use tang shank tooling because their spindles don't have the tang recess and there is no slot to knock the tanged shank loose. Lower your quill as far as you can and see if there is a slot in it. If there isn't, there is no provision for using a drift to free a tanged shank.

In this case you must 'release' it from the top. The standard procedure (and this is why I *hate* Morse taper tooling for milling machines) is to loosen off the drawbar sufficiently to get a couple of millimeters of free play, then smack the top of it with a copper hammer or similar. The shank is a friction lock into the spindle and it will not self-release, it has to be jarred loose.

If you don't have a drawbar then use a length of brass rod or similar down the hole in the spindle, and make sure there's something soft underneath to catch the chuck, arbor, whatever when it comes loose. Otherwise you may have your first ding in your mill table....

PDW

Here is where the tapered drift is supposed to go, between the green line and the red line......As you can see on this chinese machine there is no full through slot so you cannot use it..

20140227_171542.jpg



So I just flog it out with the drawbar

20140227_171613.jpg

The drill chuck arbor that came with my MMD45 from Paramount's, is MT4 and threaded for a drawbar. As has been mentioned before Sam, crank your quill down and you should find a slot in the side of it, a couple of inches up from the bottom. Looking in there you should see the end of the drawbar thread as it goes into the top of the arbor. Follow PDW's instructions to remove it.

Remember, I have the same mill as you have and I have read the instructions that came with it, so I think I know where you are standing. In the dark. Keep asking questions. We love to help.

Dean

You guys are awesome.

So I got home and wound down the head and i saw the tang hole.
I unscrewed the top of drawbar (but I undid it all the way), which I soon realised that this was wrong.

I came in, read all this and then realised i had to give it a tap...I just tapped it and low and behold, it came out.

Splendid!
Thanks guys.

Now, since the drawbar is threaded, how do I use this MT4/MT3 bit that was included? That has no thread...


haha Yes, the instruction manual for this thing is very very very light. And by light i mean useless.
Here's some pics. The tang hole goes all the through.
Cheers fellas.

IMAG0834.jpg IMAG0833.jpg

Originally Posted by oohsam

Now, since the drawbar is threaded, how do I use this MT4/MT3 bit that was included? That has no thread...

Put it in a drawer, forget about it and buy an arbor that does have a threaded shank. In the long run you'll be a lot happier.

Alternatively take the drawbar out of the machine and insert the tanged shank. twisting it to align the tang with the knockout slot. Tap it firmly home - basically you need to put the chuck on the shank with a firm tap, then the shank in the spindle with another firm tap. Make sure you wind the drill chuck jaws below the surface of the chuck first as hitting on them does nothing for the (undoubtedly poor anyway) accuracy of the chuck.

But really - put it in the far back recesses of a drawer, buy a threaded shank arbor and a nice 10mm or 12mm keyless chuck. You'll be happier, trust me.

PDW

Originally Posted by PDW

Put it in a drawer, forget about it and buy an arbor that does have a threaded shank. In the long run you'll be a lot happier.

Alternatively take the drawbar out of the machine and insert the tanged shank. twisting it to align the tang with the knockout slot. Tap it firmly home - basically you need to put the chuck on the shank with a firm tap, then the shank in the spindle with another firm tap. Make sure you wind the drill chuck jaws below the surface of the chuck first as hitting on them does nothing for the (undoubtedly poor anyway) accuracy of the chuck.

But really - put it in the far back recesses of a drawer, buy a threaded shank arbor and a nice 10mm or 12mm keyless chuck. You'll be happier, trust me.

PDW

Ah yes, got it.
I think I'll go with the threaded shank option.
I was about to buy a collet set and a collet shank. Are you suggesting that the collet shank I get should be one that can thread into the arbour.
Because if so, i'd like to keep all the shanks I get (or tools I get) the same, so they'll be all threaded...